It's the Breaking Bad thread, nag!

[Frau Mau]

crap. I just wrote as much as Colader. 

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Walt definitely has redeemable moments, even this late in the show, but I can't get past his use of people as pawns, and the fact that at the root of all of his actions is some pride bullcrap.

How is someone so coldly logical and calculating not able to see his ex's offer for what it was - access to money that was rightfully his all along?

[sph274]

how is gomez not an innocent here? he was just doing his job and doing his friend a solid. his friend was right and he ends up dead in the middle of the desert. poor guy, seemed like a pretty solid dude. i wonder if he had any family

[Lintyfresh85]

He was married per Quezada, the actor that played him.

[houston-nat]

Speaking of which, get ready for Agent Gomez's drunk driving stand up comedy jokes.

[houston-nat]

And here's Huell's stand up comedy.

[houston-nat]

And of course here's Kuby.

[PowerBoater69]

[houston-nat]

Huell's skeleton is too narrow.

[Dave B]

I wonder if he has any unfinished business with his old chemistry colleagues.  That could be what has fueled much of his run.  Showing them that he can earn a fortune without them  and that he is an accomplished chemist.  He was too proud to accept their charity. I think there was also a love interest there too at one point

rare case of me possibly being right??? close enough for me to semi gloat. i'm not a literary or cinematic type

[PowerBoater69]

rare case of me possibly being right??? close enough for me to semi gloat. i'm not a literary or cinematic type

He definitely seems to be a bit upset. For smart people they're pretty dumb to talk trash on TV about a sociopath on the loose.

[houston-nat]

The only thing that could make Breaking Bad better: Robert Forster.

[PowerBoater69]

Was Walt more upset about not being given credit for Grey Matter of that he now knows that Jesse is cooking?

[Coladar]

Was Walt more upset about not being given credit for Grey Matter of that he now knows that Jesse is cooking?

Ohh, it was so obviously Gray Matter. So, so, so obvious.

Didn't you catch the music? That was Walt breaking bad. Watching them up there saying he contributed absolutely nothing pissed him the freak off. Walt's always been about letting people know how smart he is - he'd been pissed about the Schwartz's getting rich off him for years as he taught high school chemistry. Now denying everything he did to the world? Now Walt is going to show the world just how superjor/smart he is. He also has consistently hated being called, "a nice guy.", so I'm sure he wasn't thrilled to have heard that, either.

I was saying weeks ago what the Schwartzs did explained why Walt became who he became - not so much excusing it, perhaps. I just wish Walt would go after those two jerks instead of the nazis. They're two of the most evil characters on the show, in my mind, and one could easily say they're primarily responsible for everything that happened as a result of Walt's actions.

The music was a stroke of genius though - it worked so f***ing brilliantly. It was his literal breaking bad moment. Walter White died during that closing scene, now all that remains is Heisenberg. I'm not sure I've ever seen music used to such effect as it was here - the shows theme song, used for the first time in six years in a scene? Awesome.

My vote - Walt goes to the neo-nazi compound, kills them all, discovers Jesse there half beaten to death and either shoots him in cold blood, or even worse, keeps him in chains and uses him the exact same way as the Nazi's, threatening Brock. He takes over all the equipment/supplies and returns to cooking himself. I'm just not sure whether he uses the Ricin on Lydia or the Schwartzs.

[sph274]

how the hell could you possibly see the schwartz as two of the most evil people in the show? i mean, im sure walt did have a lot to due with the beginning of the business but he has been gone for decades. the success of grey matter has very little to do with walt. i am sure running a company that large is very demanding and difficult and walt has had nothing to do with it. he really is just some jilted lover who cant just let it go. the nazis are freaking murderers, they shot that innocent woman right in front of jesse's face. that was serious, i hope jesse pulls some crazy crap. also, how the freak did he even escape? he has been malnourished and beaten up frequently, that escape seemed pretty farfetched

[houston-nat]

That was Walt breaking bad.

Pretty sure that happened in the very first episode.

Now Walt is going to show the world just how superjor/smart he is.

That's been the whole point of all his actions the entire series, from telling Tuco "This...is not meth" to figuring out the Great Train Robbery to making the rival drug dealer "say...my...name." "You're Heisenberg." He created Heisenberg partly as a means to finally lord it over everyone just how superior/smart he (thinks he) is.

They're two of the most evil characters on the show, in my mind, and one could easily say they're primarily responsible for everything that happened as a result of Walt's actions.

Gretchen and Elliott had, until they lied on TV in that last scene, done nothing wrong. In fact, they'd done an awful lot right. The show has actually left open the possibility that they weren't lying at all. Whose word do we have that Walt was instrumental at Gray Matter? Walt's. We don't really know what he DID for Gray Matter. (Unless I forgot a scene from early on.)

FYI, the BB actors were told that the backstory was that Walt was dating Gretchen, founded the company with Elliott, and then he went on vacation with Gretchen and her parents and her parents were so rich, successful, and everything-Walt-wasn't that he panicked and straight up ran away. Disappeared. Gretchen partly tells this story in season 2. I'm trying to remember where the hell I read this - it was in the past two days, probably at AV Club, Vulture, or NY Times - but right now drawing a blank on where I saw this info.

Anyway, we don't actually have a shred of evidence that Gretchen and Elliott screwed Walt until they probably lied in the interview.

Oh, and the person "primarily responsible" for Walt's actions is Walt.

the shows theme song, used for the first time in six years in a scene? Awesome.

With you on this one for sure. Almost as awesome as "Crystal Blue Persuasion" in season 5 part 1.

[Lintyfresh85]

Coladar, I'm confused on how you can read a show so wrong yet be so heavily invested it all the same.

[PowerBoater69]

Ohh, it was so obviously Gray Matter. So, so, so obvious.

Didn't you catch the music? That was Walt breaking bad. Watching them up there saying he contributed absolutely nothing pissed him the freak off. Walt's always been about letting people know how smart he is - he'd been pissed about the Schwartz's getting rich off him for years as he taught high school chemistry. Now denying everything he did to the world? Now Walt is going to show the world just how superjor/smart he is. He also has consistently hated being called, "a nice guy.", so I'm sure he wasn't thrilled to have heard that, either.

I was saying weeks ago what the Schwartzs did explained why Walt became who he became - not so much excusing it, perhaps. I just wish Walt would go after those two jerks instead of the nazis. They're two of the most evil characters on the show, in my mind, and one could easily say they're primarily responsible for everything that happened as a result of Walt's actions.

The music was a stroke of genius though - it worked so f***ing brilliantly. It was his literal breaking bad moment. Walter White died during that closing scene, now all that remains is Heisenberg. I'm not sure I've ever seen music used to such effect as it was here - the shows theme song, used for the first time in six years in a scene? Awesome.

My vote - Walt goes to the neo-nazi compound, kills them all, discovers Jesse there half beaten to death and either shoots him in cold blood, or even worse, keeps him in chains and uses him the exact same way as the Nazi's, threatening Brock. He takes over all the equipment/supplies and returns to cooking himself. I'm just not sure whether he uses the Ricin on Lydia or the Schwartzs.

Obvious, in fact too obvious that Walt was pissed about not receiving credit for Grey Matter.  When Jesse cooked Blue Sky without him before he was enraged as it is his signature product.  When he left the nazis they had agreed to kill Jesse.  But now his second empire, the one he built even bigger than Grey Matter, has been stolen. Since he has no way of knowing that Jesse is in even worse shape than he is, he's likely to assume that Jesse (who betrayed him) has cut a deal with the nazis (who killed Hank and stole his cash).  Grey Matter is old news, Walt is going to try to put an end to Blue Sky.  At least that's what I think.

As far as the Ricin goes, I've got no guess at who it's for, except if it's murder suicide for his family.  Assuming the big gun is for the nazis, he doesn't stand a chance, he's got the big brain, but he's physically weak and they've got a compound with armed guards, razor wire, cameras, and dogs.

Pretty clear now why Carol crap herself when she saw him in the flash forward.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

So Coladar wants Walter to kill a couple of smug twats who founded a chemical company instead of a bunch of ruthless Nazis?

Wow.

Just wow.

[Coladar]

I actually could be wrong about what set Walt off - you're right, I'd forgotten about him getting enraged when Jesse'd cooked before. Walt had a hankering for the nazi's before, just because they stole his money and killed Hank. He would put two and two together instantly, realizing they were behind the product... On second thought, you're absolutely right and I'm probably absolutely wrong. With one caveat - it was a combination of the two. No Schwartzs, no "Walt Breaks Bad" moment. It was the combo of his prior life's work being stolen without any credit given, and now, someone's making his blue Meth.

As far as my thoughts on Grey Matter? I admit, I watched those episodes when they aired and not since. So maybe someone who discovered the show recently and caught up on DVD can correct me, but I walked away from those episodes with the strong impression that it was clear Walt was the brains behind the operation. Gretchen was his girlfriend at the time, who had the capital and resources to exploit Walt's work, but neither of those two were "chemistry geniuses." Walt was. Then, not only do they steal his work, but get insanely rich off of it and screw him out of even a "thanks, here's a million."

I also seem to remember the implication being that Walt might have gotten the cancer from whatever it was he was doing back then, although that one I'm totally unsure on.

Bottom line, we didn't really know what happened back then, true. But when Skylar went to Gretchen, she came off as a cold hearted nag. I seem to remember most vividly the party at their house that Walt went to, where he was treated like crap and as a second class citizen.

Now if they did steal Walt's work, I hold to my comment about their wicked ways. They are indirectly responsible for everything Walt did. I've long contended that Grey Matter royally screwed Walt over, and the grudge he carried for that led him to feel like he owed the world nothing.

Lastly, as far as Walt breaking bad the first episode? Absolutely not. Absolutely, absolutely not. This episode proved that - Walt was devestated and ready to give it all up after his son disowned him. I can admit to being wrong or misremembering a lot of things, not that. What else was the point of playing the show's theme music at precisely the moment the wheels began turning in Walt's head and he abandoned all hope? That was his breaking bad, finally. Before there'd always been a Jekyll/Hyde dynamic. In that moment, Walt died and Heisenberg took over 100%.

One thing I've been curious/upset by - nobody seems to tout the idea that Walt's gone crazy. I mean literally nuts... that this isn't Walt, thus the Heisenberg persona. He has cancer - has no one on the show considered maybe he's got a brain tumor? That's one thing that's really, really pissed me off these past two episodes regarding Walt Jr. - he's desperate to believe this man isn't his father. He knows his father has cancer. Is it that much of a leap to wonder if hey, maybe it spread and the guy's wacked out beyond belief?

Of course I'd find it hilarious if the ending has Walt locked away, with the entire show having been a delusion in his mind from a tumor. It won't happen that way, but the utter lack of anyone dangling the "cancer-tumor-brain-nuts" explanation on the show is... odd.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

The thing is (and this was h-nat's point), none of that stuff with Gray Matter is actually confirmed.  It's all from Walter.

I tend to think the Schwartzes - just based on vibes - probably genuinely screwed Walt, but does that make them worse than freaking Nazis (who just murdered a single mother in cold blood)?

[Coladar]

So Coladar wants Walter to kill a couple of smug twats who founded a chemical company instead of a bunch of ruthless Nazis?

Wow.

Just wow.

Like I just posted, I haven't watched those episodes in some time. But the way Gretchen handled the whole "Skylar coming to ask for money for Walt's treatment?" Gretchen was beyond a nag about the whole thing. Then if you factor in that Walt is right, and they really did steal all of his work? I'm saying as someone who's been sympathetic to Walt at times, he's carried a grudge against them for years and years. Gretchen freaked him then freaked him over. I still feel they're responsible for the creation of Heisenberg.

So as the end of the character, the end of the show, which would I rather see, Walt going after some lunkheads who only really started appearing these past eight episodes, or two who date back to the show's very beginning and long before the show in Walt's life?

I think that interview proved Walt right about them stealing his work - "our huge contribution to a drug clinic has nothing to do with one of our founders, who never even made any money off of the company he "founded", oddly enough, is a Meth kingpin." Those two are slimeballs to the extreme. Gretchen came from money already, and Walt was poor as crap. He was a genius, she profited from his work, and then, even though she was rich without Grey Matter, cut him out of receiving a goddamn dime?

Did those two do anything worthy of being whacked over murderous skinhead nazis? Of course not. I've just always held them responsible for Walt becoming what he became, for numerous reasons (including even the cancer coming from his work for Grey Matter), and so for Walter White the character, especially after that interview, feel like them getting their just desserts for the monster they created wouldn't be that bad of a thing.

[houston-nat]

The New York Times column mentioned on last night's show? Yeah, a New York Times columnist actually wrote a fake column to be part of the show's backstory, and published it today.
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/09/23/breaking-bad-the-gray-matter-of-charity/?_r=0

[Coladar]

The thing is (and this was h-nat's point), none of that stuff with Gray Matter is actually confirmed.  It's all from Walter.

I tend to think the Schwartzes - just based on vibes - probably genuinely screwed Walt, but does that make them worse than freaking Nazis (who just murdered a single mother in cold blood)?

I already partially responded to this, but I'd add - my memory is that neither of the Schwarzs really ever seemed to have a lick of chemistry acumen. Walt was heralded as a chemistry genius, even as a student, a fact born out by Heisenberg. So I've always taken that fact for granted, even if it apparently only did come from things Walt said.

But hey, let's pretend they did do most of the work - they admit in the interview Walt was a founder of Grey Matter. Walt didn't have jack crap, in fact his sense of inferiority contributed to Gretchen's break up. Those two were already rich as all get out - then they made tens of millions more on Grey Matter! What the hell kind of person never even so much as throws Walt a frigging bone over the years? A man who toils teaching freaking high school chemistry, responsible for creating a company that earned you tens of millions on top of your existing millions?

Then as I said, the interviews "drug clinic donation" bit showed just how conniving and backstabbing the two are in my mind.

I'll shut up finally in a second, but for everybody piling it on for my hate of the Schwartzs? Imagine yourself as Walter White. Chemistry genius. Dates an insanely rich chick. Goes on to found a fortune 500 type of company with said woman. Then you end up with absolutely nothing, she marries another jerk and those two then go on to profit immensly off your work, claiming it as their own while denying you either credit or a dime of compensation. You end up teaching high school chemistry to a bunch of punk who couldn't care less about chemistry. Then you get cancer, possibly because of work during Grey Matter era, and are facing a crapload of medical bills that'll leave your family essentially homeless after you bite the dust.

Placing a significant portion of blame on the Schwartzs in such a scenario isn't a huge stretch, imo. This is precisely why I've been sympathetic to Walt, to some degree. It doesn't excuse his actions, but it does explain them somewhat. He got shafted hard, in all likelihood at least. And by someone who didn't even need the damn money to begin with? That fact, more than any other, is what gets me. Walt was the only one who really needed/didn't have any money to begin with, and the Schwartz's get rich instead? That would drive someone nuts over time, every day you spend in a run down high school teaching punks. I know it would do so to me, at least.

[houston-nat]

No Schwartzs, no "Walt Breaks Bad" moment.

Yeah, but no my mom = no me, so does that mean my mom's primarily responsible for how I do at my job?

As far as my thoughts on Grey Matter? I admit, I watched those episodes when they aired and not since. So maybe someone who discovered the show recently and caught up on DVD can correct me, but I walked away from those episodes with the strong impression that it was clear Walt was the brains behind the operation. Gretchen was his girlfriend at the time, who had the capital and resources to exploit Walt's work, but neither of those two were "chemistry geniuses." Walt was. Then, not only do they steal his work, but get insanely rich off of it and screw him out of even a "thanks, here's a million."

I also seem to remember the implication being that Walt might have gotten the cancer from whatever it was he was doing back then, although that one I'm totally unsure on.

I caught up on Netflix a few months ago. While we get the impression Walt was the brains, the truth is, the only thing we see in flashback is Walt doing a super basic problem (composition of the human body) with Gretchen in a study room. I remember getting the impression Walt and Elliott were legitimate partners, not that he stole the work; after all, Walt knew Gretchen and Elliott separately before G&E met each other. G&E got together romantically after Walt left.

I don't remember anything about Walt getting cancer from his research, but maybe?

Lastly, as far as Walt breaking bad the first episode? Absolutely not. Absolutely, absolutely not. This episode proved that - Walt was devestated and ready to give it all up after his son disowned him.

100% wrong here. This goes down to the definition of the phrase. I admit, I'd never heard anybody use the phrase "broke bad" before this show. But according to various definitions I found by Google:

"Comes from the American Southwest slang phrase "to break bad," meaning to challenge conventions, to defy authority and to skirt the edges of the law."
"The term to "break bad" is American Southwest slang meaning to turn against one's previously lawful lifestyle for one of criminal acts, usually at the cost of someone else's life or well-being."
"Lead actor Bryan Cranston stated in an interview that "the term 'breaking bad' is a southern colloquialism and it means when someone who has taken a turn off the path of the straight and narrow, when they've gone wrong. And that could be for that day or for a lifetime.""

In case you have more doubts, here's Vince Gilligan himself explaining the title: