Author Topic: Willie Randolph finally gets the axe  (Read 3864 times)

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Offline sportsfan882

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Willie Randolph finally gets the axe
« Topic Start: June 17, 2008, 05:38:08 AM »
http://sportsline.com/mlb/story/10868317
Quote
ANAHEIM, Calif. -- Willie Randolph is out as manager of the New York Mets, fired in the middle of the night 2½ months into a disappointing season that has followed the team's colossal collapse last September.

Bench coach Jerry Manuel takes over on an interim basis for Randolph, who led the Mets to within one victory of the 2006 World Series. They got off to a strong start again last year but plummeted down the stretch and have been unable to rebound.

A preseason favorite to win the NL pennant, the $138 million Mets (34-35) had won two straight when Randolph was let go early Tuesday morning -- making him the first major league manager to get fired this season.

Pitching coach Rick Peterson and first base coach Tom Nieto also were dismissed in an enormous overhaul that was revealed in a fact-of-the-matter Mets news release at a stunning time -- about 12:15 a.m. PT, nearly two hours after New York's 9-6 victory against the Los Angeles Angels.

Ken Oberkfell, the club's manager at Triple-A New Orleans, and Dan Warthen, pitching coach for the Zephyrs, will join the major league staff along with Luis Aguayo, a Mets field coordinator.

A message left for general manager Omar Minaya was not immediately returned. The Mets said Minaya and Manuel would be available to reporters at Angel Stadium at 2 p.m. PT on Tuesday.

Reached by phone nearly three hours after the game, Mets utility man Marlon Anderson said he didn't know that Randolph had been fired and he didn't want to comment until he heard the news from a member of the team.

"Not tonight," Anderson said.

It was a frustrating end for the 53-year-old Randolph, who was set to be an NL coach at the All-Star game at Yankee Stadium next month.

Signed through the 2009 season, Randolph won't be able to move with the Mets into new Citi Field next year, either.

MrMadison

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Re: Willie Randolph finally gets the axe
« Reply #1: June 17, 2008, 07:22:57 AM »
oh, the Mets better win their next 15 games in a row, or else put Mets fans on suicide watch.  this is what they wanted...now let's see how it goes and if they can live with it.

getcha popcorn ready.

Offline ZIM4MVP

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Re: Willie Randolph finally gets the axe
« Reply #2: June 17, 2008, 07:31:29 AM »
Will Manny bolt to NY?

Offline spidernat

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Re: Willie Randolph finally gets the axe
« Reply #3: June 17, 2008, 07:48:31 AM »
Will Manny bolt to NY?

If that's what he wants let him go.

I think it's dumb to use the manager as a scapegoat for the players' lack of performance but I guess that's the way it goes. Too bad we didn't play them last night or he could've been another one of our casualties.

Steve Heezy

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Re: Willie Randolph finally gets the axe
« Reply #4: June 17, 2008, 08:22:48 AM »
Will Manny bolt to NY?

not for the next 2.5 years atleast ... the mets have to ask for permission to talk to manny, something bowden has stated many times that he would not allow.

Offline JMUalumni

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Re: Willie Randolph finally gets the axe
« Reply #5: June 17, 2008, 09:44:29 AM »
Will Manny bolt to NY?

I hope not.  Manny has taken some heat for the way that he has handled things now and then, but overall I think he is just what this team needs to succeed one day.  He is good with young players and we have a lot of that.  He is good (well pretty good) at staying calm when there is frustration, we have a lot or that.  You bring in another manager and I guarantee that he will not do as good of a job/last as long as Manny has to this point.  I think it is a true testament to his skill to look at last year's team, sure we might have started out horribly.  But to have finished with the record we did with THAT team, he has to get some credit.  It would be a shame if we let him goto back to the Mets, a division rival nonetheless.

Re: Willie Randolph finally gets the axe
« Reply #6: June 17, 2008, 09:51:33 AM »
I'm actually kind of shocked by this news. I didn't think the Mutts had it in them.

Offline tomterp

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Re: Willie Randolph finally gets the axe
« Reply #7: June 17, 2008, 09:55:26 AM »
Too bad we didn't play them last night or he could've been another one of our casualties.

We can claim at least partial credit I think, since we dealt them that 5 out of 6 mortal blow during their end of season collapse last season.  That was the event that made firing Randolph an option for them.  Of course, if they'd have played to expectations this year, not a problem.

Peterson's got a reputation of being a really good pitching coach.   Guess he can be blamed for El Duque and Pedro's breakdowns.

Online blue911

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Re: Willie Randolph finally gets the axe
« Reply #8: June 17, 2008, 10:05:22 AM »
I heard rumors that Tony Bernazard was stabbing Willie in the back. Still a poor move by the Mets. I know there are a thousand examples of the new manager "righting" the ship, but the problems Willie had were age/injury related.

Re: Willie Randolph finally gets the axe
« Reply #9: June 17, 2008, 10:06:11 AM »
I heard rumors that Tony Bernazard was stabbing Willie in the back. Still a poor move by the Mets. I know there are a thousand examples of the new manager "righting" the ship, but the problems Willie had were age/injury related.

QFT

Offline nats2playoffs

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Re: Willie Randolph finally gets the axe
« Reply #10: June 17, 2008, 10:18:43 AM »
Willie Randolph was the Yankees 3rd base coach for 10 years.  The Nationals could use a real 3rd base coach.  We could also consider sending Acta and St Claire down to AAA (for re-education), and bringing Randolph and Peterson to Washington.  They already know the NL-East teams.

But does Randolph lose the Mets money if he works for another team, or do we get the Mets payments in the same way Atlanta paid Langerhans in 2007?


Offline BangZoom

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Re: Willie Randolph finally gets the axe
« Reply #11: June 17, 2008, 10:33:58 AM »
Willie Randolph was the Yankees 3rd base coach for 10 years.  The Nationals could use a real 3rd base coach.  We could also consider sending Acta and St Claire down to AAA (for re-education), and bringing Randolph and Peterson to Washington.  They already know the NL-East teams.

But does Randolph lose the Mets money if he works for another team, or do we get the Mets payments in the same way Atlanta paid Langerhans in 2007?

(Image removed from quote.)

I would take Wille as the third base coach in a heartbeat.  But come on now he wouldn't come to DC for that job.

Offline Air Zimmerman

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Re: Willie Randolph finally gets the axe
« Reply #12: June 17, 2008, 02:28:20 PM »
should've fired him after the collapse last year.

MrMadison

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Re: Willie Randolph finally gets the axe
« Reply #13: June 17, 2008, 02:38:58 PM »
I heard rumors that Tony Bernazard was stabbing Willie in the back. Still a poor move by the Mets. I know there are a thousand examples of the new manager "righting" the ship, but the problems Willie had were age/injury related.

who?

Offline tomterp

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Re: Willie Randolph finally gets the axe
« Reply #14: June 17, 2008, 03:28:20 PM »
June 17, 2008, 08:16 AM ET
Randolph Fired


by Joe Sheehan, Baseball Prospectus

The Mets fired Willie Randolph last night following their 9-6 win over the Angels, and if that sentence reads strangely, it should.

Since 1996, 32 managers have been fired or resigned under pressure with a substantial portion of the season remaining. (I exclude resignations such as Mike Hargrove’s last season or Tommy Lasorda’s in 1996, as well as cases such as Cito Gaston–who quit with five games left in 1997.) Of those 32, just seven won their last game, and just three were let go with a winning streak intact. Randolph joins Bob Brenly (2004 Diamondbacks), Bob Boone (2003 Reds) and Buck Martinez (2002 Blue Jays) in going out this way. Martinez’s Jays had actually won three straight when he was canned.

The timing was even more peculiar given the schedule. The Mets were home all last week, played a rain-created doubleheader on Sunday, then flew to Anaheim Sunday night. To make Randolph, pitching coach Rick Peterson and first-base coach Tom Nieto fly to California for the privilege of working one more day and being let go is, at best, ham-handed. Moreover, firing Randolph after one of the team’s better wins-a road game against the team with the third-best record in baseball-is strange timing. It’s completely unclear to me why Randolph had to go last night, as opposed to Sunday before stepping on a plane, or while the team was on an, however brief, winning streak.

Of course, I’ve been the one arguing that Randolph deserves to keep his job, and I stand by that. He’s improved tactically, doing a better job of handling a high-maintenance bullpen. He’s played this season shorthanded from Day One, as the bets made by Omar Minaya on high-salaried, high-risk players, the ones that worked reasonably well in 2006 and less so in 2007, failed completely in 2008. Moises Alou has played in 15 games. Pedro Martinez has made four starts. Carlos Delgado has killed the team: .242/.321/.407 with poor defense. The Mets’ bench, loaded with veterans, is awful: Only Ramon Castro and the injured Angel Pagan have a .300 OBP or .350 SLG. The Mets have been in position to win a number of games over the past few weeks, only to see the bullpen, most notably Billy Wagner, cough up the game. Randolph, like any manager, bears responsibility for his team’s performance, but when you look at what he actually does, what he has had to work with and the performance of the roster core, it’s difficult to argue that he is the problem. A quarter of his payroll has no-showed; that’s hard to overcome.

I am not arguing that Minaya needs to be fired, either. I am saying that firing Randolph doesn’t change anything for this Mets team on the field, and what it does for them off the field reeks of letting the media make decisions for you. The best argument for firing Randolph is that the constant coverage of his job status was a distraction for the players. However, that has nothing to do with Randolph or the players-it has to do with a voracious media filling column inches and air time, a group that entered the 2008 season with its sights set on Randolph. The amount of time spent questioning Randolph’s ability, versus the amount focused on the absences of Alou and Martinez, or the collapse of Delgado, or the execrable bench, is a bad joke. There’s no analysis of baseball or the Mets or any thought process at all; it’s just creating a story and then beating it until something happens.

This isn’t quite the Dodgers of 2004-05, whose general manager, Paul DePodesta, was the target of media criticism from the day he was hired and who was let go largely because the Dodgers owner had no plan other than to pander to that media. (How’s that working for you, Frank?) No, this is something a bit less blatant, but no less insidious. Randolph is out of a job today because a storyline was created, the Mets weren’t savvy enough to get out in front of it, and the situation snowballed. Omar Minaya may have made the phone call, but it was the media that made this transaction.


Re: Willie Randolph finally gets the axe
« Reply #15: June 17, 2008, 03:51:17 PM »
Reading Sheenan's post there makes me really appreciate being a Nats fan. We suck now but we can only go up. The Mets suck now and it's looking like that will be the way for them for the foreseeable future.

Offline spidernat

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Re: Willie Randolph finally gets the axe
« Reply #16: June 17, 2008, 03:59:01 PM »
Reading Sheenan's post there makes me really appreciate being a Nats fan. We suck now but we can only go up. The Mets suck now and it's looking like that will be the way for them for the foreseeable future.

I hope so.

Offline ronnynat

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Re: Willie Randolph finally gets the axe
« Reply #17: June 17, 2008, 04:33:48 PM »
This guy is a Mets fan, but he makes some good points about how little a manager actually has to do with the team's success. I agree with most of his points.

http://www.dugoutcentral.com/blog/?p=1541

arkymark

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Re: Willie Randolph finally gets the axe
« Reply #18: June 17, 2008, 04:34:20 PM »
However you feel about Willie, you can agree with this from the Daily News:

And in the history of New York baseball, there has not been a more cowardly, indecent, undignified or ill-conceived firing of a manager. Only the Mets - these Mets who have somehow lost their dignity since Fred Wilpon has chosen to drift further and further into the background - could embarrass themselves like this, firing Randolph, Peterson and first base coach Tom Nieto (and just what exactly did he do?) in their hotel rooms in Costa Mesa, Calif., and communicated by e-mail to the beat writers at 3 a.m. Eastern time.

arkymark

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Re: Willie Randolph finally gets the axe
« Reply #19: June 17, 2008, 04:36:48 PM »
And there is this from the same source:

Meanwhile, behind the scenes, Bernazard, the unofficial godfather to the Mets' Latin players, has been a constant undermining presence in the Mets' clubhouse even though he is supposed to be Minaya's assistant. If Randolph had a problem with the Latin players - and that hasn't ever been determined, other than the fact that Carlos Beltran and Carlos Delgado pointedly refused to offer any words insupport of him and Jose Reyes' erratic play led to speculation that he was somehow tuning out his manager - it was only because, in Bernazard, they felt they could go to a higher authority with their problems. Bernazard has never made any secret of his support and admiration for Manny Acta as a manager, both when Acta was a coach for the Mets and after he went to Washington as manager of the Nationals.


arkymark

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Re: Willie Randolph finally gets the axe
« Reply #20: June 17, 2008, 04:50:17 PM »
From the Post:

What a crowd, these bums are, all of them, from the Wilpons at the top to Omar Minaya down below, all of them who conspired to botch this firing worse than any firing has ever been botched. Ever. You wouldn't trust these guys to run a 7-11, let alone a National League baseball team. What a joke. What a cowardly, dastardly joke.

A midnight massacre.

A 3 a.m. thrashing.

Disgraceful. Utterly, completely, disgraceful.


Offline soxfan59

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Re: Willie Randolph finally gets the axe
« Reply #21: June 17, 2008, 04:58:35 PM »
Maybe the Mutts will bring back Mike Cubbage.

Offline spidernat

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Re: Willie Randolph finally gets the axe
« Reply #22: June 17, 2008, 05:25:08 PM »
This guy is a Mets fan, but he makes some good points about how little a manager actually has to do with the team's success. I agree with most of his points.

http://www.dugoutcentral.com/blog/?p=1541

QFT

Offline ronnynat

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Re: Willie Randolph finally gets the axe
« Reply #23: June 17, 2008, 05:27:55 PM »
QFT

This was my favorite part:

"Take Joe Torre. He managed for 15 years with only one playoff appearance (1982 N.L. west division) under his belt. Then he manages the Yankees and all of as sudden he’s a genius?"

Offline spidernat

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Re: Willie Randolph finally gets the axe
« Reply #24: June 17, 2008, 05:31:49 PM »
This was my favorite part:

"Take Joe Torre. He managed for 15 years with only one playoff appearance (1982 N.L. west division) under his belt. Then he manages the Yankees and all of as sudden he’s a genius?"

Exactly. MLB teams are configured a certain way and pretty much leave ST with roles already defined. I believe the Dodgers are below .500 right now so maybe Torre forgot how to "manage" or left his magic back in NY. I also remember someone saying Bobby Cox was a genius up until 2006  :?