Golden Gloves 2010

[JCA-CrystalCity]

AL GGs announced.  Death to Flying Things and Ichiro demonstrate the value of defense for Seattle.  Crawford displaces Hunter's streak. Somehow Jeter keeps his going.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101109&content_id=16041500&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

[Potomac Cannons]

AL GGs announced.  Death to Flying Things and Ichiro demonstrate the value of defense for Seattle.  Crawford displaces Hunter's streak. Somehow Jeter keeps his going.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101109&content_id=16041500&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

Jeter?  Wow.

9 AL SS qualified and Jeter was 7th in UZR and last in RngR (Range Runs Above Average).  He led in FP, but who cares how he handles the ball if he's the worst in the league at getting to it?

[HalfSmokes]

Jeter?  Wow.

9 AL SS qualified and Jeter was 7th in UZR and last in RngR (Range Runs Above Average).  He led in FP, but who cares how he handles the ball if he's the worst in the league at getting to it?

those fancy stats aren't errors, and beyond that, voters don't care

[DPMOmaha]

Who do the sabertricians suggest should be the Gold Glover?

[HalfSmokes]

Alexei Ramirez or Cliff Pennington

[Sharp]

Who do the sabertricians suggest should be the Gold Glover?

Sabermetricians pretty much agree that none of the stats available are sufficient to tell who the best defensive player is over the course of one year, and Fangraphs is down so I can't tell you exactly.  That said, Jeter has been mediocre to terrible by most defensive metrics for years, and if you watched him in the playoffs the eye test corroborated that pretty nicely.  So many groundball singles Jeter couldn't get to, that one jump throw that bounced halfway to first base... it used to be that the knock on him from the sabermetrics community was that he "looked good" without actually being a great defender.  Now he doesn't even do that anymore.

[Lintyfresh85]

With how today's vote went... not a chance Zimmerman wins again this year.

[The Chief]

With how today's vote went... not a chance Zimmerman wins again this year.

I'd normally agree but he won last year and what's different between this year and last year?

[Sharp]

His fielding percent is a lot lower, among the worst of any third baseman.  It doesn't really matter though, he has a good defensive reputation and has already won, both of which are more important to the voters than actual statistics of any kind.  The people who vote on the GG are managers and coaches of teams that played ZImm so they know how much of an impact his defense has on the game.  He's also great offensively, which is an important factor for the GG awards for some bizarre reason.

[blue911]

I'd normally agree but he won last year and what's different between this year and last year?

He had a bad hammy in April.

[Lintyfresh85]

His fielding percent is a lot lower, among the worst of any third baseman.  It doesn't really matter though, he has a good defensive reputation and has already won, both of which are more important to the voters than actual statistics of any kind.  The people who vote on the GG are managers and coaches of teams that played ZImm so they know how much of an impact his defense has on the game.  He's also great offensively, which is an important factor for the GG awards for some bizarre reason.

They also thought Jeter was awesome at SS, apparently.

[Sharp]

They also thought Jeter was awesome at SS, apparently.

It doesn't make a whole lot of sense, I know.

[DPMOmaha]

Sabermetricians pretty much agree that none of the stats available are sufficient to tell who the best defensive player is over the course of one year, and Fangraphs is down so I can't tell you exactly.  That said, Jeter has been mediocre to terrible by most defensive metrics for years, and if you watched him in the playoffs the eye test corroborated that pretty nicely.  So many groundball sing...

So, who do they say should win the gold glove?

[Lintyfresh85]

Alexi Ramirez or Cliff Pennington

Alexi Ramirez: 10.8 UZR
Cliff Pennington: 9.9 UZR
Derek Jeter: -4.7 UZR

[DPMOmaha]

Alexi Ramirez or Cliff Pennington

I saw that said earlier.  I wanted Sharp to answer the question since he spend 20 minutes venting about Jeter without actually answering the question.

[Sharp]

So, who do they say should win the gold glove?

Like I said in the post, Fangraphs was down so I couldn't answer your question exactly.  I don't have all these stats in my head    I was just pointing out that even though it's not necessarily a good idea to use a year's worth of stats to say definitively who should be the Gold Glover, it's quite feasible to use them to determine who shouldn't, and Jeter is in that category.

[DPMOmaha]

gotcha

[JMUalumni]

Fielding Bible Awards are a good place to start for the general consensus amongst sabermetric types.

http://fieldingbible.com/complete-votetally.asp

[JCA-CrystalCity]

The Fielding Bible Awards came out earlier in the week, and that had many of the SABR gurus on the panel, like Dewan, Neyer, and the Tango poll.  The winners were

1B - Daric Barton (Pujols #2, top NL)
2d - Utley (O-Dog #2, top AL)
3d - Longoria (RZ #2, top NL)
SS - Tulo (Brendan Ryan #2, Alexei #3 - top AL)
LF - Brett Gardner (an underrated Yankee) (Crawford 2d, Tabata #3 - top NL)
CF - Bourn (Death to Flying Things #2)
RF - Roger Bernadina Ichiro (Jay Bruce #3)
c - Yadier (Carlos Ruiz #2)
P - Buehrle (Arroyo #5 - top NL)

Link

Pudge, Livo, Kennedy, and Nyjer also got votes. Lastings had more votes than any of these.

[edit for spelling & to note JMU beat me]

[Sharp]

The Fielding Bible awards are just an aggregated eyeball test though... then again so are most defensive stats.

[mitlen]

I was afraid this was a boxing thread.   I was so glad to find I was wrong.

[DPMOmaha]

3d - Longoria (RZ #2, top NL)

Separated by one point.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Separated by one point.

Neyer had a piece on that one noting the closeness and that the difference was largely due to fan voitng on Tango's site (EL #1, RZ #4).

[JCA-CrystalCity]

The Fielding Bible awards are just an aggregated eyeball test though... then again so are most defensive stats.

But they are some pretty good eyeballs.  They include the BIS scouts who rate every play that goes into their data, which from the basis for Fangraphs UZR. Add in Bill James, Rob Neyer, Joe Posnanski, Dewan, and I'd say it has a SABR lean.  That's how Barton was #1.

[JMW IV]

the Gold Glove is the Brian Pumper Jewels of Baseball Awards.

(google Brian Pumper Jewels, or twitter search for #brianpumperjewels for the reference)