Vent thread: The park and the fans

[fan]

1. the Park.
I have been watching the live camera feeds.  I have been reading the blogs.  I went to Open House.  I was really excited.
a. The Playstation area is a stupid idea.  If someone wants to play Playstation, go home.  Go to Walmart and sample it there.  It doesn't belong in a ballpark.  I understand that people have kids, and I like the jungle gym thing and build-a-bear.  The only way this is ok is if Sony paid for the Bravia TV's around the park. 
b. The suites and things make the stadium look bad.  Not the actual suites themselves, but the fact that the area behind home plate is the one that the TV sees.  No one sits there. 
c. The ticket prices are far too high.  There needs to be more $10-17 seats in better locations. 
d. There needs to be something on top of the Red area.  It can be a baseball or Mount Rushmore, but it has to be something.  Someone please tell me that they are going to put the baseball up in Season 2.  Whatever they put up there could be the defining aspect of the stadium.
e. The napkins.  There needs to be more of them.

2. the fans
Where are the fans?
Why did DC build a stadium for 24,000 people? Game 3's attendance was not much better than Game 2. 
Obviously, I am preaching to the choir here, but it deeply saddens me.

[Ali the Baseball Cat]

Well, 20,000 of us were at the DC United game, and 20,000 others at the Wiz game...tomorrow should be a *little* better.  Other local sports teams siphon off a lot of the folks who attend live sports events writ large, particularly when the other teams aren't sewer dwellers.  That said, a lot of people (myself included) will be fitting in the Nats this weekend (in between PLAYOFF HOCKEY GAMES!!!). 

I love my Nats, and I spend a great deal of time and money attending Nats games throughout the year, but I doubt that I am alone among Washington sports fans in having my energies a bit spread thin at the moment (not a bad problem to have, considering the alternative).

Baltimore filled OPACY for a decade because of a) a good team; b), Cal;, and c), there was nothing else new in town other than the latest Sparrows Point layoffs.  The "wow" factor of a new baseball stadium is much lower in WDC. 

[LetsGoNats]

2. the fans
Where are the fans?
Why did DC build a stadium for 24,000 people? Game 3's attendance was not much better than Game 2. 
Obviously, I am preaching to the choir here, but it deeply saddens me.

I am in my 4th year as a season ticket holder (41 game plan), so I'll be at plenty of games like every year.  But quite honestly, the team isn't any better than they've been.  If the team doesn't put the $$$ into fielding a better team, can you really blame people for not coming out at the prices they are charging?  Instead of pushing car flags, magnets, and the fact that we have a new park, I would like to have seen more effort in building at least a 2nd rate starting rotation.  I generally agree with and buy into "The Plan", but there were better options available at reasonable prices than Odalis Perez and relying on high-risk players like Hill & Patterson.  I don't necessarily mind the higher prices, but I'd like to see the extra $$$ invested in fielding a team that is more competitive.   My two cents.

[OldChelsea]

When one has conflicts, one has to make choices - and I've got a bunch of them right now - here is my Nats schedule for the rest of this month:

Tonight vs Marlins - will attend
Tomorrow vs Braves - will miss (Capitals playoff conflict)
Saturday 12th vs Braves - will attend
Sunday 13th vs Braves - will miss (Capitals playoff conflict)
Wednesday 23rd vs Mess - currently planning on attending*
Thursday 24th vs Mess - currently planning on attending*
Friday 25th vs Cubs - currently planning on attending*
Saturday 26th vs Cubs - will miss (DC United conflict)
Sunday 27th vs Cubs - currently planning on attending*
Tuesday 29th vs Braves - currently planning on attending*
Wednesday 30th vs Braves - currently planning on attending*

*unless Wizards playoffs (fixtures to be announced after regular season ends next Wednesday) and/or a second Caps playoff round conflict.

[bob2274]

It's great that we have a conflict for playoff games, but it stinks when you look somewhere like Boston when the Bruins are playing for a sellout crowd and the Red Sox have a packed house as usual.
The big difference is- just about everyone in a city like Boston has lived there forever. Being the nation's capital, how many people here are from somewhere else? Even then, a lot of our people from somewhere else are interested in other things (like politics) and not sports. The remaining sports fans follow other teams.
After the dreadful playoff series in 2003, I'm just thankful the Caps are finally selling out!

[fan]

So tonight we had No Caps, No United, No Wizards.
Temperature: 70 degrees.
Game 4 at Brand New Nats Stadium.
Attendance: 24,549 (59.6% full)

TERRIBLE!!! 

Lets compare these numbers to other teams.
1. The Rockies first season at Coors
Avg attendance=47,084
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/rockattn.shtml

2. Mariners at Safeco
Avg attendance=35,983
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/mariatte.shtml

3. Brewers at Miller Park
Avg attendance=34,704
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/brewatte.shtml

4. Pirates at PNC
Avg Attendance=30,834
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/pitatte.shtml

I attempted to think of teams that weren't contenders in the year they received their new park.  The final 2 numbers seem small, but they are huge compared to the following years at those newer parks.  (something really scary to think about).  Additionally, you have to consider that attendance and interest for baseball games nationally has gone up, so our numbers should actually be even more inflated than theirs.
Last year we drew 27k per game for crying out loud.  There needs to be huge numbers posted this weekend.

[LetsGoNats]

So tonight we had No Caps, No United, No Wizards.
Temperature: 70 degrees.
Game 4 at Brand New Nats Stadium.
Attendance: 24,549 (59.6% full)

TERRIBLE!!! 


Dear Ownership,

Cut ticket prices NOW!  You can raise them when you assemble a team that can contend or a fan base.  This sucks.  I am ashamed.

I agree, but you must admit that a 7 game losing streak doesn't make it too easy to build a fan base.

[Ali the Baseball Cat]

Well, that's D.C. Depending on how you look at it, it is a wonderful gift (being in a swirling mix of proactive and highly educated people), or a terrible curse (two-dimensional scutters with bullcrap MBAs from everywhere but here, lording over a local population of the chronically unemployed and illegal landscapers, with a sprinkle of bitter locals like jimmies on a badly cooked cake).  Anyways, fanbase skews heavily towards visiting teams.


It's great that we have a conflict for playoff games, but it stinks when you look somewhere like Boston when the Bruins are playing for a sellout crowd and the Red Sox have a packed house as usual.
The big difference is- just about everyone in a city like Boston has lived there forever. Being the nation's capital, how many people here are from somewhere else? Even then, a lot of our people from somewhere else are interested in other things (like politics) and not sports. The remaining sports fans follow other teams.
After the dreadful playoff series in 2003, I'm just thankful the Caps are finally selling out!
[/quote]

[Why Not?]

Well, 20,000 of us were at the DC United game, and 20,000 others at the Wiz game...tomorrow should be a *little* better.  Other local sports teams siphon off a lot of the folks who attend live sports events writ large, particularly when the other teams aren't sewer dwellers.  That said, a lot of people (myself included) will be fitting in the Nats this weekend (in between PLAYOFF HOCKEY GAMES!!!). 

I love my Nats, and I spend a great deal of time and money attending Nats games throughout the year, but I doubt that I am alone among Washington sports fans in having my energies a bit spread thin at the moment (not a bad problem to have, considering the alternative).

Baltimore filled OPACY for a decade because of a) a good team; b), Cal;, and c), there was nothing else new in town other than the latest Sparrows Point layoffs.  The "wow" factor of a new baseball stadium is much lower in WDC. 

At some point, the explanations/excuses aren't going to hold water anymore. Other cities have cold weather, poor teams on losing streaks, other sports...yet none of them have shown so little interest in a new ballpark.

[spidernat]

At some point, the explanations/excuses aren't going to hold water anymore. Other cities have cold weather, poor teams on losing streaks, other sports...yet none of them have shown so little interest in a new ballpark.

I knew Angelos' whore was somewhere glorying in the Nats attendance and would eventually make an appearance to gloat about it.

[Minty Fresh]

It's great that we have a conflict for playoff games, but it stinks when you look somewhere like Boston when the Bruins are playing for a sellout crowd and the Red Sox have a packed house as usual.

The big difference is- just about everyone in a city like Boston has lived there forever. Being the nation's capital, how many people here are from somewhere else? Even then, a lot of our people from somewhere else are interested in other things (like politics) and not sports. The remaining sports fans follow other teams.
After the dreadful playoff series in 2003, I'm just thankful the Caps are finally selling out!

Actually, I lived in the Boston area for the first 28 years of my life.  One thing that annoyed (and still does annoy) the local Red Sox fans are the bandwagon jumpers that come from all corners of the earth.  Boston has the highest per capita number of colleges of any city in the world.  Kids come from all over the globe to attend college, most don't like baseball when they arrive, and get swept up in Red Sox Nation.  They then either relocate to the Boston area or go back home and claim to be "life-long, die-hard Red Sox fans."  The locals get quite bitter about that.

[Dave B]

If we had 24k last night, that is at least a 7k improvement over last year in terms of tickets.  Probably no more than 20k actual bodies, unless there were about 3-5k hiding in the restaurants and clubs

I might not think along with the rest of the population, but the stadium alone is not enough to keep me coming back. It was nice, I suppose, but I just like old simple ****.

The actual upper deck seats suck compared to RFK. I sat basically in the Upper RF terrace (about same heght as IF gallery).  It was pretty well up there compared to 400 level at RFK. 

If you are up under the overhang, if feels like you are in your living room because they have actual indoor mood lighting overhead.  Some might like that, but I left my living room to come to an outdoor game. Dont put me back in my living room when I get here.

Big plus to the common areas, the loft, general openings to view the game, etc.  I'm spending nothing more than 5-10 dollars and am just going to roam the place in the future. Might try to get good seats from scalpers once and judge the lower/club level.  Could have had 50 dollar seats for 25 bucks, but last night's budget was pretty low.

Unless the Nats dont want attendance stories to go away, they need to start slashing prices fast.  The new formula should be: for every game we are below .500 take 50 cents or a dollar off the price.  There really is no added incentive for people to go there more than once with the way the team is playing and the increased difficulty of travel.

[Ali the Baseball Cat]

Seems like given the alternative between bandwagon jumpers and an entrenched population of enemy fans, the former would be preferable, but that's my opinion...oh, and for the record, I was quoting someone there (as one who went to school there myself--or across the Charles in Cambridge, at any rate--I know just how transient that city's population is). 

Actually, I lived in the Boston area for the first 28 years of my life.  One thing that annoyed (and still does annoy) the local Red Sox fans are the bandwagon jumpers that come from all corners of the earth.  Boston has the highest per capita number of colleges of any city in the world.  Kids come from all over the globe to attend college, most don't like baseball when they arrive, and get swept up in Red Sox Nation.  They then either relocate to the Boston area or go back home and claim to be "life-long, die-hard Red Sox fans."  The locals get quite bitter about that.

[Ali the Baseball Cat]

It looked to me like Stan read Sverluga's chat on the dot-com Post and started pulling people from around the stadium to sit in the gold coast seats after the 4th inning...since most of them were spending more time texting people on their cell phones and waving at the camera than watching the game, I'm guessing those weren't their everyday seats. 

If we had 24k last night, that is at least a 7k improvement over last year in terms of tickets.  Probably no more than 20k actual bodies, unless there were about 3-5k hiding in the restaurants and clubs

I might not think along with the rest of the population, but the stadium alone is not enough to keep me coming back. It was nice, I suppose, but I just like old simple ****.

The actual upper deck seats suck compared to RFK. I sat basically in the Upper RF terrace (about same heght as IF gallery).  It was pretty well up there compared to 400 level at RFK. 

If you are up under the overhang, if feels like you are in your living room because they have actual indoor mood lighting overhead.  Some might like that, but I left my living room to come to an outdoor game. Dont put me back in my living room when I get here.

Big plus to the common areas, the loft, general openings to view the game, etc.  I'm spending nothing more than 5-10 dollars and am just going to roam the place in the future. Might try to get good seats from scalpers once and judge the lower/club level.  Could have had 50 dollar seats for 25 bucks, but last night's budget was pretty low.

Unless the Nats dont want attendance stories to go away, they need to start slashing prices fast.  The new formula should be: for every game we are below .500 take 50 cents or a dollar off the price.  There really is no added incentive for people to go there more than once with the way the team is playing and the increased difficulty of travel.

[The Chief]

So tonight we had No Caps, No United, No Wizards.
Temperature: 70 degrees.
Game 4 at Brand New Nats Stadium.
Attendance: 24,549 (59.6% full)

TERRIBLE!!! 

Lets compare these numbers to other teams.
1. The Rockies first season at Coors
Avg attendance=47,084
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/rockattn.shtml

2. Mariners at Safeco
Avg attendance=35,983
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/mariatte.shtml

3. Brewers at Miller Park
Avg attendance=34,704
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/brewatte.shtml

4. Pirates at PNC
Avg Attendance=30,834
http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/pitatte.shtml

I attempted to think of teams that weren't contenders in the year they received their new park.  The final 2 numbers seem small, but they are huge compared to the following years at those newer parks.  (something really scary to think about).  Additionally, you have to consider that attendance and interest for baseball games nationally has gone up, so our numbers should actually be even more inflated than theirs.
Last year we drew 27k per game for crying out loud.  There needs to be huge numbers posted this weekend.

How can you keep a straight face while you compare attendance from 3 games to the average attendance from an entire season?

Wait and see what the attendance is like this weekend with the Braves in town, then we'll re-visit this topic.

[Dave B]

How can you keep a straight face while you compare attendance from 3 games to the average attendance from an entire season?

Wait and see what the attendance is like this weekend with the Braves in town, then we'll re-visit this topic.

Might even have to wait through the summer.

I also think DC is in a unique situation in terms of a new team/stadium combination.

A) we didnt get a team like COL, where there was no team within a reasonable drive. we had baltimore to go to if you really wanted a baseball fix

B) similar to A) we've all been to a nice new stadium before.  People in Pittsburgh and others probably had not

[fan]

How can you keep a straight face while you compare attendance from 3 games to the average attendance from an entire season?

Wait and see what the attendance is like this weekend with the Braves in town, then we'll re-visit this topic.

Are you going to claim that the first 4 games at any of the parks that I mentioned weren't 4 of the parks games with the highest attendance?
I realize that they're weekday games against the Marlins, but they're also at the point where the team actually has hopes of going .500.  You think people wait to see something new?
I was told to wait til Wednesday night.  Then I was told to wait til Thursday night.  Do you really think we are going to draw 40k tonight or tomorrow?  Please provide an estimate of the weekend attendance numbers Chief.

[natsfan1a]

I don't know. It seems to me that whenever I watch a baseball game on tv (and not only Nats games) I see people behind home plate doing that. What's up with that?  A wag on the Nats Journal once posited that the way to get such "fans" to pay attention to the game would be to remove the protective netting behind the plate.

   

since most of them were spending more time texting people on their cell phones and waving at the camera than watching the game, I'm guessing those weren't their everyday seats. 

[spidernat]

I don't know. It seems to me that whenever I watch a baseball game on tv (and not only Nats games) I see people behind home plate doing that. What's up with that?  A wag on the Nats Journal once posited that the way to get such "fans" to pay attention to the game would be to remove the protective netting behind the plate.

   

Or you see chicks yapping the entire time and not paying an ounce of attention to the game 

[tomterp]

Are you going to claim that the first 4 games at any of the parks that I mentioned weren't 4 of the parks games with the highest attendance?
I realize that they're weekday games against the Marlins, but they're also at the point where the team actually has hopes of going .500.  You think people wait to see something new?
I was told to wait til Wednesday night.  Then I was told to wait til Thursday night.  Do you really think we are going to draw 40k tonight or tomorrow?  Please provide an estimate of the weekend attendance numbers Chief.

April weekdays are the worst attendance we'll have all season.  Marlins are the worst opponent in terms of fan interest.  If you compare Nats attendance in any prior year, you'll find the April weekday attendance to be substantially lower than the average for the season, which includes weekends, summer, holidays, and desirable matchups.  To compare a Thursday game vs. the Marlins to season averages is apples and oranges.

Not that I think 24k is something to boast about, not at all.  But anyone trying to make comparisons should make the effort of adjusting for comparability.

Ken, if you're lurking out there, this might be a good time to resurrect some of that historical attendance trend data.  YOu still keeping it?

[sportsfan882]

I'd rather watch the Marlins than the Phils, Braves, and Mets. They have tons of exciting, young players.  They are also 1st Place in the NL east. 

[nats2playoffs]

The 2007-2008 attendance for each MLB team is at:

http://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/2008attendance.htm

The Opening Day surge raises the average for many teams temporarily.  I imagine that the original schedule did not include the actual March 30, 2008 Opener, which would have meant that the original opener would have been against the Marlins, (giving the Nationals time to prepare the new stadium.)

[PANatsFan]

Might even have to wait through the summer.

I also think DC is in a unique situation in terms of a new team/stadium combination.

A) we didnt get a team like COL, where there was no team within a reasonable drive. we had baltimore to go to if you really wanted a baseball fix

B) similar to A) we've all been to a nice new stadium before.  People in Pittsburgh and others probably had not

I'm really excited to compare Nats Park to PNC. It will be tought to beat PNC

[Dave B]

April weekdays are the worst attendance we'll have all season.  Marlins are the worst opponent in terms of fan interest.  If you compare Nats attendance in any prior year, you'll find the April weekday attendance to be substantially lower than the average for the season, which includes weekends, summer, holidays, and desirable matchups.  To compare a Thursday game vs. the Marlins to season averages is apples and oranges.

I dont know if this applies to the first year of a new stadium though.

Although, maybe the second, third, and fourth games arent historic enough to draw people out. They just figure they'll wait til June if they can't get in Opening Night

[spidernat]

The 2007-2008 attendance for each MLB team is at:

http://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/2008attendance.htm

The Opening Day surge raises the average for many teams temporarily.  I imagine that the original schedule did not include the actual March 30, 2008 Opener, which would have meant that the original opener would have been against the Marlins, (giving the Nationals time to prepare the new stadium.)

(Image removed from quote.)

That's a good link. According to those numbers we're 7th from the bottom (not including the 4 clubs for which there was no data). That's still pathetic considering we have a new stadium.