Poll

Which Team has worst fans?

Yankees
Mets
O's
Red Sox's
Atlanta
Phillie
Cubs

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Offline NatsAddict

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Re: Who has the worst fans?
« Reply #50: May 28, 2007, 09:25:21 PM »
Anybody remember somebody from the MLB board, from back around the 2005 spring training, who went by BoSoxNatsFan or something similar to that?

Offline soxfan59

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Re: Who has the worst fans?
« Reply #51: May 29, 2007, 07:15:56 AM »
Technically, the Cubs have no fans.  The attendees at their games are only there for for the juvenile purpose of getting publicly drunk and are "fans" only of the beer they continuously throw on players.  You have to first be able to properly identify a baseball to be a fan of an MLB team, and that excludes all of Chicago's north side.

Natsaddict, I post here with a joyful tear in my eye.  Someone else besides us White Sox fans gets it!  Cubs fans are the Worst!

Here is an excerpt from a rant I posted in my blog on June 7, 2006.  It speaks of my observations and experiences of a lifetime of watching Cubs fans.

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My Cubs fans friends will no doubt chime in with the factors that make Cubs baseball the better option in Chicago. Let’s imagine what they’ll say to me:

How about all that history and tradition?

62 years without a pennant? 98 years since their last world series title? Since 1940 (66 years), the Cubs have had 17 seasons in which they have won more games than they lost (The White Sox have had 36 winning season in the same time frame, which is considered mediocre). Nearly 50% of the Cubs winning years in that time occurred at one time, while Leo Durocher was the manager. Talk about inept. That's tradition? That's history? The Polish air force had better luck in 1939. The Cubs, owned by the Chicago Tribune, a billion dollar media giant, have the financial ability to compete on the same level as the Yankees, Red Sox. and Braves, but chooses to palm off an antiquated ball park and a triple A team as the ultimate baseball experience, and whose fan base feels and holds itself out as morally superior because they have endured all of this "losing" and because of "tradition" and "loyalty." Baloney! The Cubs have not won a world series since before the Titanic was built and when a Czar still ruled Russia! The history of the White Sox may be littered with all sorts of disaster, but they are at least competitive more often than not, and have been to the World Series twice in my lifetime, winning it all just last year. The Cubs, on the other hand, have made losing into an art form.


Wrigley Field is such a great place to see a game! Day baseball! Family atmosphere! Kids get the opportunity to see more games, because they play day baseball! Its just great!

I beg to differ. Many Sox fans have come to dub Wrigley Field as the “Urinal,” as that is what it smells like below the stands. It is a decaying, nearly unsafe relic (remember, the City of Chicago threatened to close it if the hunks of falling concrete from the upper deck weren’t remedied). More "kids" get to come to day games? Considering there is basically no walk-up crowd because loop businessmen, lawyers, and other fat cats have bought up all the seats, I'd say its nigh impossible for a kid to get in to see the Cubs unless his Dad's a CEO of a Chicago based fortune 500. Part of the reason the Cubs continue to play day baseball is they sell out day baseball to the suits and other loop denizens who use it as an excuse to leave work early. Wrigley Field has some awfully bad concession food as well. The amenities, including the food, are much, much better at the Cell.

And say what you want about nosebleed seats at U.S. Cellular Field, at least the site lines are there – if you’re not in one of the box seats in the lower deck of Wrigley, odds are you’ll be sitting behind a pole. There have also been a lot of cracks about U.S. Cellular Field being in a “ghetto,” while Wrigley Field is in a “beautiful neighborhood.” If you check the crime statistics and property values in the police districts in which the two parks are located, guess what? Statistically, the neighborhood around the Cell is much safer than Wrigleyville.

A lot is made about the Cubs always drawing more fans than the Sox. I’ll have more on that later, but it has always been a fact that when the Sox have had poor teams, they don't draw as well. Its a way we send a message to the owners, to put a better product on the field. This is a concept lost on Cubs fans, who keep going to the game like sheep, and actually even when they are at the game, they pay little attention to the on-field product. Why should the Tribune company work to put a winner on the field when brain-dead Cubs fans will continue to pack Wrigley Field regardless of who or what is in uniform for the Cubs?

Well, the White Sox are owned by that money grubbing skinflint Jerry Reinsdorf!

Reinsdorf has traditionally gotten a lot of crap because of his misguided attempt to put the Sox on pay per view in the early 80s (which cost the Sox the services of Harry Carry), his hardline stance in the labor dispute of 1994 (which may have cost the White Sox the World Series at the time), and for the "White Flag" trade in the mid-1990s. But if you look back with 20/20 hindsight, the development of the White Sox was always moving a positive direction, culminating in the World Series championship last year. The Cubs ownership at the Tribune has the money to build an organization like the Braves or Yankees, but they choose not too. Which Chicago team has a more wonderful owner? If the businesses I work with supplied me with that kind of service, do I continue to frequent them? As long as Cubs fans stay as "loyal" as they apparently are, there will never be a pennant on the north side of Chicago, because the bean counters at the Tribune are saying "If it ain't broke, why fix it?" At least the White Sox ownership got sick of it and made the necessary changes. Cubs fans may holler “its just a fluke!,” but they only wish their team could have such a fluke.

But the Cubs have fans everywhere! We are devoted to our team, and are more popular than the White Sox. We are AMERICAS TEAM!!

Cub fan devotion is born out a couple of decades of superstation WGN being on cable in such remote outlets as Keokuk, Iowa; Billings, Montana, and Boise, Idaho, with nothing else on except soap operas in the afternoon. Bored housewives, nursing home residents, kids home from school in the summer, and geeky folks with nothing better to do became devoted to the Cubs, but strictly as a television product. This formed a large, devoted fan base of folks who had little baseball saavy, but liked the TV show. This is why, for example, that the average female Cubs fan is more concerned with whether her favorite "cute" ballplayers are in the lineup, then who is pitching or trends affecting the team. This is why for years its been tough to get into weekend games because they are sold out to tour groups from places like Keokuk – busloads of people want to see the Cubs because they have seen them on TV. This is why the Cubs gave a big money contract to Ryne Sandburg the same year they let Greg Maddux go back in the early 90s. Ryno had established "cuteness" and TV aplomb. He was, for all intents and purposes, a TV star. WGN's other big TV hit back in those days was Bozo's Circus. They'd never let Bozo leave for greener pastures; he was the star of the show. In effect, Ryne Sandburg was “Bozo.”

A lot is also made of the Harry Carrey connection. There is a statue dedicated to him at Wrigley Field. The other cultural icon of the Cubs on TV was Jack Brickhouse. But it is interesting to note that the two most popular Cub announcers happened to begin their careers in Chicago both primarily as announcers for the White Sox. There’s an awful lot of hoopla over honoring the memory of Harry Carey by singing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" during the 7th inning stretch, because that was Harry’s tradition started by the Cubs. Except it wasn’t started by the Cubs. Bill Veeck, then owner of the White Sox, suggested the stunt to Harry while Harry was announcing for the Sox. It caught on. Back in those days, Harry was viewed as an obnoxious, drunken fool by Cubs fans. That sort of thing was “beneath them.” Once in the Cubs announcer's booth, these same qualities suddenly endeared him to Cubs fans – he became a benign, almost grandfatherly figure. What changed? Indeed, the whole Harry Carey persona, which became the cornerstone of the Cubs' image and marketing, was created first for the White Sox. Harry left the White Sox because of a dispute with Reinsdorf over cable t.v. It was a terrible loss for the Sox. But it is ironic that the very man who shaped the public image most Cubs fans identify with developed it for the White Sox. (actually, for the Cardinals before that). So "beloved" as Harry may be, his connection to the Cubs has little to do with the Cubs, and everything to do with Harry the marketing genius.

Indeed, most of the Cubs marketing ploys in recent years, from theme days at the park, to the scrolling message board in center field, to the popularity of Sammy Sosa in his playing days, originated with the White Sox. Even Wrigley Field, in its most recent remodeling, added seats in center field and an outfield “sports bar” – something the Sox have had as a feature in both old and new stadiums for decades! Imagine that – the Cubs, “the most popular team” in Chicago, are mimicking the Sox in their marketing efforts! I find it insulting to have Cub fans revel in such matters as if it “belongs” to them, when the Sox have been doing the same thing for years, and been criticized because it was originated by Bill Veeck, or Reinsdorf, rather then the WASPy upper crust ad executives at the Tribune tower.

Yes, the Cubs may be more popular. Last time I checked, they don’t give out a trophy for being the “worlds champion of attendance.” The White Sox have won the prize that counts. And, if things keep going in the direction they are going in, the Cubs won’t continue to be the #1 team in Chicago. Already, this year, the Sox TV ratings far outstrip the Cubs. It is getting tougher and tougher to get tickets to the Sox. Indeed, the White Sox sold out of their season ticket packages for the first time before this season. You see more and more White Sox merchandise. The tide is turning!!

The Cubs may have lengthy spells of ineptitude, but there is always a reason to care and to watch! We’re loyal fans!

Just like there's a reason to care and watch "As the World Turns." Its not baseball, its pre-packaged media hype. Cub fans pack Wrigley Field because "they care?" Care about what? A cast of characters that hasn't remained constant except in its inability to win? No, the vast majority of Cubs fans care only to experience what they see on T.V. Its the "Universal Studios Tour" of major league baseball. On any given Saturday during the baseball season, you will find the Wrigley Field stands packed with business folk and busloads of tours of upscale wealthy folks from places like Keokuk. (This is all made possible because the Tribune formed its own ticket brokerage firm that buys a majority of Cubs seats, and resells them back to Cubs fans at inflated prices! The owners make more than twice as much money from Cubs fans/sheep!) There are thousands of single, twenty-something Yuppie business types who live on the north side, and can afford to drop the heavy duty coin needed to attend a Cubs game. They are all there to see Wrigley and its ivy, to watch Harry's successor's sing, to bask in the sun, drink too much, ogle the pretty girls in the tube tops, be seen with the "beautiful people," to become a "hat shot" for the camera guys on WGN T.V. But it has precious little to do with the day to day fortunes of the team, and any real interest, knowledge, or love of baseball. (Its just like people who go the Opera or Symphony in order to rub shoulders with the “hoity toity” crowd, when they themselves could give a rip about classical music). Indeed, Wrigley Field’s atmosphere is anything but “family friendly” – it’s become more of a college boy/frat party atmosphere. Drunken revelry and fistfights abound. I have friends who are devoted Cubs fans, even season ticket holders, who refuse to take their children to Wrigley Field because of the “raunchy atmosphere.” (Hands down, the atmosphere at the “Cell” is much more conducive to taking a family to the ball game. Sure, there are still over-imbibers and rowdiness, but its taken care of by park security and families with kids are respected).

There are Cub fans who are devoted to their team the way I am devoted to the White Sox. These Cubs fans are in the decided minority. By and large, these Cub fans are not real excited about the way the Tribune and WGN run the team, or with the atmosphere at Wrigley Field. It has been my experience as a baseball fan in Chicago that the vast majority of Cubs fans know little about baseball, and only care about the hype. By and large, Sox fans tend to be more "baseball" oriented. There are far fewer of us, this is true. But we're realistic.

The most amazing thing I continue to experience with Cubs fans generally is this empty headed, “holier than thou” devotion. In the past, the complaint was that Sox fans were the “jerks,” and that Cubs fans really didn’t care about the White Sox. Cubs fans somehow think they are in Nirvana simply because they are Cubs fans, but the "Nirvana" they revel in has so little to do with the on-field product. They feel they are “better” than Sox fans, because they somehow have suffered, and are loyal, as if being a Cubs fan is like being a member of the Franciscans or some other religious order or something. Now that the White Sox have won the world series, we see the true Cub colors – bitterness and anger. And as for Cub fans who self-righteously feel that they need not "run the Sox down," all you needed to do is listen to the sports call in shows locally after the fight in the recent Cubs/Sox game. Now, this is not to say that Sox fans have manners, and Cubs fans do not, but that Cubs fans are truly no different than Sox fans in the depth of the bitterness of the rivalry – even more so now that the White Sox have won the World Series, despite the Cub fan sub-culture that claims not to "care" about the Sox.

And actually, as far as really HATING the Cubs anymore, having the Sox win it all has tempered that a great deal for me. It used to be aggravating, generally having a better baseball product, and still playing second banana to a really crummy team with a mindlessly devoted following on the other side of town. The excuses were always there – the Cubs have better fans, the Cubs are more popular, the Cubs have a better ballpark, etc. Even if you accept all this as true (which I would argue is NOT), the bottom line is still this – they don’t give out championship trophies for being more popular, having a ballpark in a nice neighborhood, or for being good citizens. Every authentic, truly devoted Cubs fan I know ultimately wants the Cubs to win the World Series more than anything else. The White Sox have done that. The monkey is off of our back. Whatever argument you want to make, the Cubs have an amazing, nearly century long record of ineptitude (and since 1947, have the one of the most incredible record for losing in any sport). Until last year, the White Sox had not won a championship in nearly as long, but at least were generally competitive. Until last year, that was my argument. But now, we are the champions. I guess, after this long rant, that is really all that needs to be said.

Offline tomterp

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Re: Who has the worst fans?
« Reply #52: May 29, 2007, 01:41:51 PM »
I also notice Steve Bartman's name keeps coming up in their conversations.

Bartman made a huge contribution to the karma and overall personna of the Cubs.  In a way, there's a little Bartman in each Cubs fan.

natsfan1a

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Re: Who has the worst fans?
« Reply #53: May 29, 2007, 01:51:41 PM »
Re. Phillies fans, who seem to be running away with the poll: Just want to say that I took my first trip to Philly last week for a professional conference. All of the citizens that my husband and I encountered were friendly and helpful to a couple of clueless tourists. The obnoxious fans must be an exception (I even wore my Nats gear on our travel days).

As an aside, among the sights we took in were the Liberty Bell and toured Independence Hall. The docent-led tour was informative and inspiring and I highly recommend it.