"Beachball" Bergmann Nearly Deflates That One

[Nat of the Living Dead]

This has to be said.

I was on the road listening to the game on XM tonight and I nearly drove off the road when listening to the pitching performance of Jason "Beachball" Bergmann.  Christ, give the guy an 8 to 1 lead and he just about blows it.  Give the guy an 11 to 5 lead and he nearly hands the game back.

The Marlin announcers were being kind saying he was a guy with hard luck.  I call it a guy with bad stuff.  I knew it.  The Marlins knew it.  Manny Acta knew it visiting the mound.  That Josh Willingham 3 run homer sealed the deal and I feared took the wind out of our sails.

4 1/3 innings and eight runs on seven hits....not "ace" material.  Not at all. 

But thankfully, our bullpen held and our offense came through with extra runs for a great win.  Kearns and Young surged tonight.  Three game winning streak presently.

Serve me up some more Swordfish Steak tomorrow, Chico!

[natsfan1a]

Did they say anything on tv or could you tell by watching what Manny said during his mound visit? The radio guys thought he was laying down the law to Bergmann (didn't really help if so?).

But, as you say, I'm glad that our offense came through (a few times!) to keep a lead and the pen was able to hold on.

[Evolution33]

Every pitcher in that game was terrible. Our's less so than the Marlins, but still that was one ugly game. Even though we won and scored so many runs it was a hard game to watch. I think sitting in the dugout through the sixth run inning affected Bergmann and he just isn't as good without pressure. Both Willis and Bergmann didn't look like the break served them very well.

[wpa2629]

Every pitcher in that game was terrible. Our's less so than the Marlins, but still that was one ugly game. Even though we won and scored so many runs it was a hard game to watch. I think sitting in the dugout through the sixth run inning affected Bergmann and he just isn't as good without pressure. Both Willis and Bergmann didn't look like the break served them very well.

That's so true- plus it was HOT and humid in Florida - both pitchers were drenched in sweat by the first inning - the strike zone was as tight as I'd seen it in a while too - Both Bergmann and Willis (as with the other pitchers) struggled MIGHTILY ... seems like the ASG was a good break for the bats ... but not for the pitchers ...

[shoeshineboy]

Did they say anything on tv or could you tell by watching what Manny said during his mound visit? The radio guys thought he was laying down the law to Bergmann (didn't really help if so?).

Manny was very animated, and you could even tell by Schneider's reaction that Bergmann was getting taken to the woodshed. Manny said afterwards what every one expected, that he told him that the team had given him enough runs, and that he would give him one more chance to win the game, but he had to get the job done.

This is a blessing in disguise because it allowed Manny to set a good tone for the second half. The offense came off the break wanting to recover their pride, and Manny wants everyone to work to win as many as possible. So with half a season under their belts, there should be less patience for lack of execution.

It is actually not surprising to see this kind of offensive production. Hitters never admit it, but the grind of the season wears everybody down. Give them a four days off in a row, and they can come out chomping at the bit. Combine that with both sets of pitchers getting squeezed, and it can get ugly. Kudos to the bullpen though, especially Saul. He got really squeezed, and was the victim of a perfect bunt, but hung in there and retired the side. 

[tomterp]

4 1/3 innings and eight runs on seven hits....not "ace" material.  Not at all. 

It was a horrible outing, no doubt about it, but I don't think you can make that kind of conclusion based on one outing.  Let's see how he fares over his next 4-5 outings before we'll be able to get a better fix on where he's headed.  Don't forget, his first outing of the year was similarly awful, but he gradually improved until he was nearly unhittable, until going down with the elbow thing.  The good news is, for once it didn't cost us the game, and we haven't had that kind of good luck in a while.

[JMW4th]

Yup bergmann had a bad game. It happens to all pitchers. He wasnt gonna pitch two hitters every time out

[Nat of the Living Dead]

It was a horrible outing, no doubt about it, but I don't think you can make that kind of conclusion based on one outing.  Let's see how he fares over his next 4-5 outings before we'll be able to get a better fix on where he's headed.  Don't forget, his first outing of the year was similarly awful, but he gradually improved until he was nearly unhittable, until going down with the elbow thing.  The good news is, for once it didn't cost us the game, and we haven't had that kind of good luck in a while.

I am not going to play the "lets wait and give him (X) number of games to see".  We have seen a lot already from this kid.  We've had Beachball for 3 seasons (I think that is right).  He isn't some snot nosed rookie that we just pulled up from the farm.  We've seen this guy and he has been nothing short of inconsisent minus his "miracle" run earlier this season.  Since coming back from his injury he has blown the game in the 2nd inning when pitching against the Bucs (6 runs), put together a nice game against the Cubs  but couldn't pull through and hold them, and then last night's near meltdown.  This inconsistency I believe is the real Jason Bergmann.  I'm not saying get rid of him, we can't afford to do that with this rotation.  But trying to make him one of our premiere pitchers just isn't going to work.  He is at best a 4th or 5th starter or better served in Columbus.

I could care less about how the Marlins pitcher's did.  Their lack of pitching or good pitching is their problem.  Not the Nats.  We need to execute and take advantage of that sloppy pitching which our offense did.  Humidity as an excuse?  Come on guys.

God Bless, Manny Acta.  He knows this kid is out of "get out of jail free" cards.  Its time to play the game and that is what he went out there and told him to do.  Beachball caved.  Hopefully that little reaming Acta gave him lights a fire under his ass.  If not, we might have to be concerned that "the fear" has come back into Jason "Beachball" Bergmann and maybe another talk with JimBo is in order.

Hey, it worked once.

[Kenz aFan]

NOTLD is right about Bergmann, so you might as well consider this a quoted for truth post with a little extra.

Bergmann has never been remotely good enough to be call a good starter, let alone an ace. To think that he is, is to see things through rose colored glasses. Good pitchers are more consistent, a lot less streaky and bad outings are infrequent. Too many bad pitchers become Washington Nationals, because they and their agents see the Nats as a potential stepping stone, and that's not how it should be. Good teams attract good pitchers, bad pitchers are drawn to bad teams like flies are drawn to.....

The only pitcher remotely resembling an ace on this team is Shawn Hill, and hopefully he'll be back soon to lead the staff.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

I am not going to play the "lets wait and give him (X) number of games to see".  We have seen a lot already from this kid.  We've had Beachball for 3 seasons (I think that is right).  He isn't some snot nosed rookie that we just pulled up from the farm.  We've seen this guy and he has been nothing short of inconsisent minus his "miracle" run earlier this season.  Since coming back from his injury he has blown the game in the 2nd inning when pitching against the Bucs (6 runs), put together a nice game against the Cubs  but couldn't pull through and hold them, and then last night's near meltdown.  This inconsistency I believe is the real Jason Bergmann.  I'm not saying get rid of him, we can't afford to do that with this rotation.  But trying to make him one of our premiere pitchers just isn't going to work.  He is at best a 4th or 5th starter or better served in Columbus.

I could care less about how the Marlins pitcher's did.  Their lack of pitching or good pitching is their problem.  Not the Nats.  We need to execute and take advantage of that sloppy pitching which our offense did.  Humidity as an excuse?  Come on guys.

God Bless, Manny Acta.  He knows this kid is out of "get out of jail free" cards.  Its time to play the game and that is what he went out there and told him to do.  Beachball caved.  Hopefully that little reaming Acta gave him lights a fire under his ass.  If not, we might have to be concerned that "the fear" has come back into Jason "Beachball" Bergmann and maybe another talk with JimBo is in order.

Hey, it worked once.

You're not going to "give him more time."  Hm, that's interesting.  That's not what you said when he was doing well.  In fact, I seem to remember you saying that you weren't satisfied yet, and you were going to have to see more of Bergmann to make a conclusion.

So which is it?  Do you want to give a pitcher a full season, or at least 2/3 of one, to assess him, or do you want to make conclusions based on a sample size that is too small?

Face it: you're being self-serving here.

[Kenz aFan]

You're not going to "give him more time."  Hm, that's interesting.  That's not what you said when he was doing well.  In fact, I seem to remember you saying that you weren't satisfied yet, and you were going to have to see more of Bergmann to make a conclusion.

So which is it?  Do you want to give a pitcher a full season, or at least 2/3 of one, to assess him, or do you want to make conclusions based on a sample size that is too small?

Face it: you're being self-serving here.

I think the person who needs to be educated here isn't NOTLD, but you. He was right in saying he wanted to see more, because seeing more showed Bergmann to be nothing more than mediocre. He has a catcher who (almost) everyone believes is the best game caller out there, yet he still manages to screw it up, more often than what would be normal if he was a good pitcher. Jason Beachball is the perfect name for him, because his pitches have little movement, his "stuff" is incredibly average, even on his good days.

As for your statement that NOTLD was basing his conclusions on a small sample size, GET A PROGRAM, we've been watching Jason Beachball for three seasons and except for one good streak, and that's all it was in my opinion, he's shown himself to be a very below average pitcher. The only reason he's pitching in the majors is because he's with the Nats. He's a better reliever than he is a starter, and he's not a very good reliever at that.

You need to pay attention to more than just the past few months.

[Ali the Baseball Cat]

Based on a sample of one game (or his last five starts, I gather), Dontrelle Willis is the biggest turd in the baseball punchbowl.  Of course, there was that, uh, World Series...

Which leads me to this tangent: how does a team that is a) not in last place, and b), which has some pretty good players, and c), has won two championships in the last decade draw a Friday night (announced) crowd of 11,000?!?  I used to live in Miami, and there are a lot of baseball fans there...what's the deal?  Is it the stadium?  Loria? 

[UMDNats]

Shawn Hill, when healthy, is this team's "ace". Last year he was good and he was great before he got hurt, and that's his biggest problem. Right now, it's Chico. Bergmann is nothing more than a mediocre pitcher who had a great start to the season.

[spidernat]

In fairness to NOTLD, even though he acknowledged Bergmann's good outings he did state repeatedly that he did not fully believe in him (and even nicknamed him 'Beachball' based on his past performances) and would need to see Bergmann maintain a certain level of effectiveness over a prolonged period of time. He is just saying that he has seen enough of Bergmann, which is his prerogative. I too have been an open detractor of Bergmann but the promise he showed us for several starts gave me cause for cautious optimism. I also stated that I wanted to see him perform consistently over a period of time before I jumped on board and extended him my imprimatur (not that that's worth much of anything  ). Of course I believe the jury is still out on Bergmann. I'm willing to give him a longer look, not that we have much of a choice, to see which pitcher is the real Jason Bergmann. I still think he is at best a back of the rotation pitcher but every staff needs a stable back of the rotation. It remains to be seen whether Bergmann will provide us with some back of the rotation stability. I think he has good to above average stuff (but that's true of lots of pitchers at this level). The question is whether he can overcome his terror of the strike zone (especially after being hit hard) and learn over time to pitch himself out of jams, or even better, to stop creating jams because he refuses to pitch in the strike zone. 

[KnorrForYourMoney]

I think the person who needs to be educated here isn't NOTLD, but you. He was right in saying he wanted to see more, because seeing more showed Bergmann to be nothing more than mediocre. He has a catcher who (almost) everyone believes is the best game caller out there, yet he still manages to screw it up, more often than what would be normal if he was a good pitcher. Jason Beachball is the perfect name for him, because his pitches have little movement, his "stuff" is incredibly average, even on his good days.

As for your statement that NOTLD was basing his conclusions on a small sample size, GET A PROGRAM, we've been watching Jason Beachball for three seasons and except for one good streak, and that's all it was in my opinion, he's shown himself to be a very below average pitcher. The only reason he's pitching in the majors is because he's with the Nats. He's a better reliever than he is a starter, and he's not a very good reliever at that.

You need to pay attention to more than just the past few months.

You're not getting my point.  It's self-serving to say that you want to see more of a guy, and then claim that you're proven right when he suddenly has a bad stretch, even though his sample size is too small for proper evaluation.

And yes, it's still too small.  Last year was, circumstantially, very different from this season.  He was very inexperienced, and Frank wouldn't give him a defined role.  Comparing this season, where he's set in place as a starter for the season, to last season is faulty.

[Nat of the Living Dead]

You're not getting my point.  It's self-serving to say that you want to see more of a guy, and then claim that you're proven right when he suddenly has a bad stretch, even though his sample size is too small for proper evaluation.

And yes, it's still too small.  Last year was, circumstantially, very different from this season.  He was very inexperienced, and Frank wouldn't give him a defined role.  Comparing this season, where he's set in place as a starter for the season, to last season is faulty.

I'm sorry that you feel that I have short changed you in some fashion but your anger shouldn't be with me, it should be with Bergmann.  GOOD pitchers do not give up six runs in an inning.  GOOD pitchers do not nearly give the game back by allowing TWO three run homers.  How much more of that do you need to see to really know?

What I said was weeks ago before he got injuried.  Since then he has had plenty of opportunity to be consistent and be the pitcher everyone wants him to be.  He just hasn't shown it because he just never has been that type of pitcher.

I mean honestly, after 3 seasons, how much more time do you think I should give him?  Isn't it as equally "self-serving" to keep adding on time to give him so you can "be proven right?"

[KnorrForYourMoney]

I'm sorry that you feel that I have short changed you in some fashion but your anger shouldn't be with me, it should be with Bergmann.

I'm not angry with you, but I do feel you have some strange bias against Bergmann.  It's like he shot your puppy.

GOOD pitchers do not give up six runs in an inning.  GOOD pitchers do not nearly give the game back by allowing TWO three run homers.

It's happened to the best of them.

I mean honestly, after 3 seasons, how much more time do you think I should give him?  Isn't it as equally "self-serving" to keep adding on time to give him so you can "be proven right?"

I have no horse in this race.  I really don't have any bias for Bergmann.  I'm just not willing to jump to any conclusions based on that outing against Florida.

Bergmann still has the third-best ERA of all the starters we've trotted out to the mound this season - behind Hill and Redding, the latter of whom has only 2 starts under his belt.

[Nat of the Living Dead]

I'm not angry with you, but I do feel you have some strange bias against Bergmann.  It's like he shot your puppy.It's happened to the best of them.I have no horse in this race.  I really don't have any bias for Bergmann.  I'm just not willing to jump to any conclusions based on that outing against Florida.

Bergmann still has the third-best ERA of all the starters we've trotted out to the mound this season - behind Hill and Redding, the latter of whom has only 2 starts under his belt.

Third best ERA would be impressive if this was a rotation of quality.  But its not so having the third best of anything right now in the rotation is not saying much.

You obviously have not been paying attention the past two seasons because I am not judging one damn thing off ONE game in Florida.

"Its happened to the best of them" is a cop out I am not willing to accept and settle on.

But we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

[tomterp]

NOLD, Ken, I'm not sure that anybody considers Bergmann our "ace", but does it matter anyway?  Ace is just so much marketing hype, once the rotations have an injury or a rainout, things get all jumbled up so that your "ace" is no more likely to face their "ace" than any other player in the rotation. 

If you feel you've seen enough of Bergmann, and you've made your determination about his future (that he has none), fine, that's your perogative.  But I beg to differ.  I don't think we've seen enough.  He's coming off an injury, hasn't gotten back up to speed, and it would be a huge mistake to judge any player at this point in the injury / recovery cycle.  Last night Bergmann was awful, but he can be very, very good.  As a franchise the Nats have to be very careful not to cut loose guys that might turn out to be very good, cause we don't get our hands on many of them.  This would be "Orioles" disease, run a player out there for 30 days, then make the judgement.  They did it with Curt Schilling, they did it with John Maine most recently.  This guy stinks, get rid of him.  They are then shocked at the turnaround.

I'm not saying Bergmann's the next Schilling, what I'm saying is that we haven't seen enough to know.  If your mind's made up already, fine.  But mine isn't.

[PANatsFan]

Dude's still hurt, at least that's what I think.

[Nat of the Living Dead]

I presented this question before but got no answer: how long a wait is just too long or too short?  How much time should I give him?  I have already seen over three seasons of Bergmann pitching.  Are you telling me next season he will shed his current pitching coil and morph into Nolan Zeus, Pitching God?

If he is still injured, he shouldn't be playing.  He is hurting the team more than doing it good.

[thunderstrucknatsfan]

I have never been a big Bergmann fan.  He was so-so in 2005 and 2006 and in my opinion if he belongs in the rotation at all, it is in the back end.  However, it could be that his arm is still bothering him - pitchers are not always truthful and will say their arm is fine just because they want to be out there pitching.

I don't believe Shawn Hill is this team's "ace" either.  He didn't pitch very well in 2006 before he was shut  down with soreness in his elbow, and I don't think we have seen enough of him this year to  give him that label.  His stuff has never been rated as highly as Patterson's, and though I know that some of you have given up on JP, I think it is still too early to count him out.  Let's see what happens when he comes back from Toronto.  I know that he is not ready to give up yet.  And remember, Hill is not back yet either, and apparently he also has a "little nerve problem" in adittion to "tendinitis" in his elbow.  Also, don't forget that his injury history is at least as bad as Patterson's.

[ronnynat]

Bergmann still has the third-best ERA of all the starters we've trotted out to the mound this season - behind Hill and Redding, the latter of whom has only 2 starts under his belt.

Good point. Also, Hill could come back and have 2 disastrous starts and could be behind a couple of people in ERA. I see it as more than obvious that Bergmann's better than Bowie, Chico, Redding (of course), and most of the others we attempt to throw out there. There isn't a pitcher on this team that we haven't seen have an outing like that. These seasons are really tough to be patient w/, but I do believe Bergmann's going to bring us more positives than these kinds of outings.

[ronnynat]

I have never been a big Bergmann fan.  He was so-so in 2005 and 2006 and in my opinion if he belongs in the rotation at all, it is in the back end. 

Back end for Bergmann is probably right. If he's at the back of the rotation next year, chances are Chico's been moved out, we've gotten one or two FAs, and a few of our young guns have proven their way up.

[spidernat]

I have never been a big Bergmann fan.  He was so-so in 2005 and 2006 and in my opinion if he belongs in the rotation at all, it is in the back end.  However, it could be that his arm is still bothering him - pitchers are not always truthful and will say their arm is fine just because they want to be out there pitching.

I don't believe Shawn Hill is this team's "ace" either.  He didn't pitch very well in 2006 before he was shut  down with soreness in his elbow, and I don't think we have seen enough of him this year to  give him that label.  His stuff has never been rated as highly as Patterson's, and though I know that some of you have given up on JP, I think it is still too early to count him out.  Let's see what happens when he comes back from Toronto.  I know that he is not ready to give up yet.  And remember, Hill is not back yet either, and apparently he also has a "little nerve problem" in adittion to "tendinitis" in his elbow.  Also, don't forget that his injury history is at least as bad as Patterson's.