Nats looking @ Elijah Dukes...

[hammondsnats]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6909946

[kimnat]

good grief!!  Jimbo!  Just say no!!!

[PC]

I'll pass.  We don't want the Nats to become the MLB version of the Portland Trailblazers or the Cincinnati Bengals.

[Kenz aFan]

People said the same thing of Jose Guillen when Bowden traded for him, then turned around and quickly fell in love with him... A change of scenery might be exactly what Dukes needs, but I think there are much better options out there that Dukes for the Nats to chase after. Has Jim Bowden ever heard of something called pitching. Screw running after other team's outfield rejects and chase starting pitchers instead.

[shoeshineboy]

Screw running after other team's outfield rejects and chase starting pitchers instead.

Yeah, if they're going to look at the DRays, the SP they had going tonight, Andy Sonnanstine, looked pretty nasty.

[PC]

A change of scenery might be exactly what Dukes needs...

Maybe or he can threaten to kill his wife just as easily in Washington as Tampa. 

[Evolution33]

It all depends on what we have to trade to get him. It is hard going through a big break-up and dealing with it can be tough. He is young and hasn't shown the best intelligence, but it could just be a one time thing. If we don't have to give up too much then maybe we should do it and just see what happens. This was part of the Braves model under Kasten. They had troubled people like Drew, Sheffield, and Sanders.

[natsfan1a]

Yes, and in a classroom setting no less. Please, no.

Maybe or he can threaten to kill his wife just as easily in Washington as Tampa. 

[natsfan1a]

Quoted from the report in the link originally posted:

Dukes, who attended Hillsborough H.S. in Tampa, has been arrested at least five times since 2003, according to court and law enforcement documents obtained by the St. Petersburg Times.

He was suspended twice by the Rays last season for behavioral problems at Class AAA Durham. His first suspension was for 15 games. His second was for 30.

It all depends on what we have to trade to get him. It is hard going through a big break-up and dealing with it can be tough. He is young and hasn't shown the best intelligence, but it could just be a one time thing. If we don't have to give up too much then maybe we should do it and just see what happens. This was part of the Braves model under Kasten. They had troubled people like Drew, Sheffield, and Sanders.

[Evolution33]

Quoted from the report in the link originally posted:

Dukes, who attended Hillsborough H.S. in Tampa, has been arrested at least five times since 2003, according to court and law enforcement documents obtained by the St. Petersburg Times.

He was suspended twice by the Rays last season for behavioral problems at Class AAA Durham. His first suspension was for 15 games. His second was for 30.

Well if all we have to give up is cash or Logan or Langerhans then it is worth the risk. I really suspect this is just a rumor. Every time a toolsy outfielder is availible we are rumored to be interested based on nothing mroe than who are GM is. The reward could be great in getting a player like Dukes, but it all depends on what we have to trade.

[tomterp]

Well if all we have to give up is cash or Logan or Langerhans then it is worth the risk. I really suspect this is just a rumor. Every time a toolsy outfielder is availible we are rumored to be interested based on nothing mroe than who are GM is. The reward could be great in getting a player like Dukes, but it all depends on what we have to trade.

D-Rays need relief pitching, so perhaps say Rauch + Logan or something along those lines.

[Evolution33]

D-Rays need relief pitching, so perhaps say Rauch + Logan or something along those lines.

The more I think of this the less I trust the source. Plus it seems like he is just including the Nationals because it is Jim Bowden and an outfielder.

[shoeshineboy]

The more I think of this the less I trust the source. Plus it seems like he is just including the Nationals because it is Jim Bowden and an outfielder.

That could absolutely be the case, and could be complete misdirection. Ultimately, I agree with you that as long as what we gave up seemed cheap, that this could be worth the risk given his potential. This guy has had his problems, but so have a lot of these players. A decision like this would have to be coupled with a zero tolerance policy along with a belief that many of these stories are overblown. You don't take a guy on like this just because of numbers, but based upon a belief that he has been a kid caught up in some bad stuff that you have better impression of personally. Chuck LaMar would appear to be the key here. He was the GM at Tampa before joining the Nats in the offseason, and he assembled their crop of young talent. He would have to weigh in heavily here and be the main reason for even considering him.

[tomterp]

The more I think of this the less I trust the source. Plus it seems like he is just including the Nationals because it is Jim Bowden and an outfielder.

I heard Rosenthal on XM this morning, and he specifically said he knew of negotiations that were ongoing, as opposed to speculation like you indicate.  He also said that there were a couple of other teams also interested in Dukes, but that he didn't know for sure which ones, which led me to conclude he has a source in the Nat's front office.

[shoeshineboy]

I heard Rosenthal on XM this morning, and he specifically said he knew of negotiations that were ongoing, as opposed to speculation like you indicate.  He also said that there were a couple of other teams also interested in Dukes, but that he didn't know for sure which ones, which led me to conclude he has a source in the Nat's front office.

To Evolution33's point, while Rosenthal likely has this source in the FO, it is not uncommon for guys like him to be used to plant information. If there are other teams that could consider him, the Nats could simply make other teams want to step into to block the deal. Still, I would hope that if the Nats are truly interested, that they negotiate heavily to get the guy on the cheap or possibly as part of a bigger deal. The D-Rays have some good young talent. They could be trying to pull a Billy Beane here and trade for a guy like Dukes on the surface, and then say "Ok, now that we're taking this guy off your hands, go ahead and throw these other prospects in that we really want."

[tomterp]

Obviously getting Dukes would be bringing an element of high risk to the team, but would also be a huge upgrade in center field, one of our most glaring weaknesses.  Might well be worth the gamble.

[Nat of the Living Dead]

It would all depend on what we would be giving away and the zero tolerance policy, etc. but I'm willing to roll the dice to possible solidify that CF spot.

[shoeshineboy]

Obviously getting Dukes would be bringing an element of high risk to the team, but would also be a huge upgrade in center field, one of our most glaring weaknesses.  Might well be worth the gamble.

I am actually far less concerned with his checkered past than I am with his motivation to play. The Ricky Williams parallel bothers me. If a guy is truly motivated and feels that he has made mistakes and bad decisions along with being misunderstood, etc. he can turn things around in the right situation with the right oversight and environment. If he would rather smoke dope than play, I have little hope. They really need to have a feeling for what type of guy he is at the core.

[shoeshineboy]

It would all depend on what we would be giving away and the zero tolerance policy, etc. but I'm willing to roll the dice to possible solidify that CF spot.

Here are some excerpts and quotes from an article last August when Dukes was frustrated by his latest suspension:

Dukes told Baseball America on Tuesday that he was misquoted in the article and has been misrepresented as the reason why fellow top prospects Delmon Young (who was suspended 50 games after throwing a bat at an umpire) and B.J. Upton (who was arrested in June on a DWI charge) got into trouble.

"It's all the same thing," Dukes said. "They've all been saying that I'm a bad influence on those two guys for two years. I didn't room with Delmon this year (he did at Double-A Montgomery in 2005), but still I'm the bad apple.

"I didn't tell Delmon to throw his bat at that umpire. I didn't tell B.J. to go driving his car after he had some drinks. I don't even hang out with those guys. It was always just me in my apartment after games or whatever."

Obviously, this is a guy with a history of problems who came from a tough background. But he is clearly frustrated by an inability to escape that past. Sometimes a change of scenery and a better environment can help a guy like this flourish. It is high risk, but possibly high reward. That big chip on his shoulder has to be turned into something positive if he is to be successful.

[ronnynat]

Obviously, this is a guy with a history of problems who came from a tough background. But he is clearly frustrated by an inability to escape that past. Sometimes a change of scenery and a better environment can help a guy like this flourish. It is high risk, but possibly high reward. That big chip on his shoulder has to be turned into something positive if he is to be successful.

I think the same thing. If we'd still have Dmitri around if/when he got here, he'd have a great player to look up to. Plus, Manny is a young manager who has a better chance of being close to these young players than most. I'd say do it. Roll the dice on this 22 (soon to be 23) year old power hitter. Shoot, we all wanted Adam Dunn, right? Why not get a younger version at a MUCH cheaper price. Seems like, potentially, a great piece to the puzzle.

[iron_nat]

Dukes and Baseball:   

    *  Dukes received a relatively short three (3) game suspension after a full-on screaming match with then-Bulls hitting coach Richie Hebner.

    * In June, Dukes was suspended for fifteen games (15) after a heated dispute with teammate Ryan Knox, another outfield hopeful, in the lobby of the club's hotel on the road after a game with Charlotte;

    * The International League suspended Dukes for five (5) games after refusing to leave the field when an umpire ejected him during a game on July 25, 2006;

    * In August, 2006, Dukes drew a thirty (30) game suspension from the Devil Rays in the wake of the incident in late July, effectively ending his season;

    * USA TODAY ran a piece on the Bad Boy Bulls, who took the opportunity to take a shot at the D-Rays organization for leaving them down on the farm. Dukes' contribution, in part, was a stunning dis of the D-Rays: "Those guys up there [in the big leagues] shower in Evian. Here, we use sewer water." Dukes later denied saying it.

Dukes and the law:

    * Hillsborough deputies were called to break up a fight between Dukes and NiShea Gilbert on Dec. 8, 2003, shortly after the birth of their child. According to an arrest report, Dukes threw a remote control at Gilbert and was arrested on an assault charge. Formal charges were never filed.
    * He was arrested again on Dec. 25, 2003, and accused of obstructing an officer without violence. Prosecutors allowed him to enter an intervention program.
    * On Oct. 12, 2004, Dukes was charged with misdemeanor battery. The case was never prosecuted.
    * He was arrested again on a charge of battery on Jan. 18, 2005. He did not contest the charge and the judge withheld adjudication, sentencing Dukes to one year probation and $549 fine.
    * According to the Tampa Police Department, one of Dukes' ex-girlfriends filed a sworn request for prosecution against him on Jan. 24, 2005. The ex-girlfriend, Zanquesha L. Jefferson, told police that Dukes choked her with his right hand and forced her into a chair. He squeezed her cheeks while demanding a kiss, the records show. The outcome of the complaint could not be determined Wednesday.
    * Dukes' most recent arrest was in January, when he was charged with misdemeanor marijuana possession. He pleaded not guilty.

[shoeshineboy]

This guy isn't the only athlete with these kinds of problems. The big question comes down to how much of a chance they have of getting him to stick by his desire to keep his nose clean and leave his past behind. Do they believe he is really willing to mature and fulfill his potential, or do they think he is likely to be a punk forever? Again, they shouldn't go by stats or reports of personal behavior to make that decision. This is something that will take one on one evaluation. Some athletes do turn themselves around when they hit a certain age. This is sort of a make or break time for a guy like this.

Still, I can't help but think that this is a lot of speculation or misdirection from one or both front offices. The best move would really be a multiplayer deal where we appeared to be taking Dukes off their hands on the cheap but in reality fleecing them of prospects that LaMar really knows and covets.

[tomterp]

He's just not going to let anybody tell him what to do, he's a real man, a la Sheffield.

[wpa2629]

Didn't Dimitri Young have a whole host of on field and off field problems? Wasn't he basically released from the Tigers last year? Don't we pretty much love him completely right about now? As long as Dukes has paid his penalties/suspensions, then I'm in the camp of giving him a clean slate if he comes here

But... I'm on the fence on this trade personally - aren't there some serious outfield studs available through free agency next year .. Torii Hunter?? Andruw Jones?? Why not wait and pull the trigger on those guys instead of trading our pen for someone who may or may not work out and could quite possibly be a real problem ...?  - Wouldn't our pen be better served to try and wrangle a starting pitcher and some prospects?

[Dave B]

People said the same thing of Jose Guillen when Bowden traded for him, then turned around and quickly fell in love with him... A change of scenery might be exactly what Dukes needs, but I think there are much better options out there that Dukes for the Nats to chase after. Has Jim Bowden ever heard of something called pitching. Screw running after other team's outfield rejects and chase starting pitchers instead.

We barely have good enough players to play positions in the Majors so I dont think we have anything good enough to acquire decent pitching.  However we probably do have enough to get a high upside potential disaster at our weakest position with essentially no hope in sight.