Author Topic: Church Feeling the Pressure From Snelling  (Read 8202 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Senators2005

  • Lake Ridge, VA
  • Posts: 12271
  • Go Natsssssss!
    • http://nationalsnation.spaces.live.com/
Church Feeling the Pressure From Snelling
« on: March 19, 2007, 10:37:10 pm »
Notes: Church sliding, Snelling soaring
03/19/2007 8:43 PM ET
By Bill Ladson / MLB.com
LINK: http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070319&content_id=1850771&vkey=spt2007news&fext=.jsp&c_id=was

VIERA, Fla. -- Outfielder Ryan Church acknowledged on Monday that he read Nationals general manager Jim Bowden's comments about Chris Snelling competing with Church for the starting left-field job.
For most of the spring, manager Manny Acta said that Church was going to start in left field no matter what kind of spring he had. But not only is Church fighting for a job, he is now in a 7-for-40 slump, while Snelling leads the team in home runs and RBIs, and had another fine game Monday against the Dodgers, going 1-for-1 and three walks.

Asked if Bowden was sending him a wakeup call, Church said, "I already know that I'm in a slump. I don't have to be told more than once."

Church, who went 0-for-3 against Los Angeles, said he was frustrated by his lack of production.

"It's a couple of weeks before we go [up north]," he said. "I spent the first two weeks of hitting the wrong way, so it was two weeks down the drain. I feel confident, and I'm back to where I want to be. Batting practice has been good. I just need to take it into the game.

"My whole thing is to concentrate and getting back where I need to be. I want to get hits. I don't want to see the box scores with me going 0-for 3."

As for Snelling, he doesn't like to talk about himself. He claims he doesn't keep track of who is winning the left-field job or his great numbers in Spring Training. Snelling also said he doesn't know if drawing walks is part of game. All he wants to do is win ballgames.

"There is no competition for me. From what I hear, the manager has made up his mind on who he likes and that is out of my control," Snelling said. "I think [reporters] look at stats. There's nothing wrong with that. For me, as a player, it's not about me. It's about the team. I could be hitting a .150 or .350. I don't really care, as long as we're winning. That's all that I care about."

Offline JMW IV

  • Posts: 11345
  • Name on the Front > Name on The Back
Re: Church Feeling the Pressure From Snelling
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2007, 10:42:22 pm »
Church needs to step it up.

cause Snelling is making it happen right now.

Offline Senators2005

  • Lake Ridge, VA
  • Posts: 12271
  • Go Natsssssss!
    • http://nationalsnation.spaces.live.com/
Re: Church Feeling the Pressure From Snelling
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2007, 10:43:00 pm »
Communication Couldn't Be Better for the Nationals
By Barry Svrluga
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, March 20, 2007; E01
LINK: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/19/AR2007031901859.html

VIERA, Fla., March 19 -- Jim Bowden leaned against the batting cage Monday morning at Space Coast Stadium, and Manny Acta approached from the side. "Manny Acta!" the general manager of the Washington Nationals said, and he held out his hand to his manager. They then engaged in a quiet discussion as their players took batting practice before them. Two weeks from Opening Day, there are decisions to be made, and that pair must make them together.

"Manny Acta and I are on the exact same page," Bowden said roughly 30 minutes later. "We have great communication. We know where each other stands at all times. And as an organization, we have tremendous synergy."

Over the weekend, though, that may not have appeared to be the case. Among the players Bowden and Acta watched take batting practice were outfielders Ryan Church and Chris Snelling, a pair of left-handed hitters who sent ball after ball up into the breeze that blew out toward right field. Because Acta, the first-year manager, and Bowden, entering his third year as the GM, had publicly espoused different takes on the two players' standing in the organization, Bowden and Acta appeared at odds.

Monday, they both said that's simply not the case.

"He knows what's going on, and I know what's going on," Acta said after a crisp, 9-1 victory over the Los Angeles Dodgers. "We're on the same page all the time. He's doing his job, and I'm doing my job."

At this point in the spring, though, those two jobs overlap a bit, because Bowden's task is to provide Acta with a roster of 25 players, and Acta's task is to take those players and manage them to as many wins as possible. That comes to a head in left field, where Acta has spent much of the offseason trying to make Church -- a 28-year-old who is looking to become a full-time major league starter for the first time in his career -- more comfortable and confident. Bowden, however, is famous for trying to spark players to perform by creating competition, and Sunday he said, "The only question is who's going to start in left field," when asked about Snelling's spring performance.

"Chris has a special bat, a chance to hit with high on-base percentage," Bowden said Monday. "He's capable of being a .300 hitter with 15 to 20 homers, and he plays the game the right way. His uniform is dirty before the national anthem starts."

The perception then quickly becomes that Bowden favors Snelling. Not so, said the GM.

"I love Ryan Church," Bowden said.

It is worth remembering that with six days remaining in spring training in 2005, Bowden handed the starting center fielder's job to Church.

"I'm a big Ryan Church fan," he said. "People seem to write that I'm not. Ask Ryan. He and I have a good relationship. I believe in him. His hand-eye coordination is as good as it gets. His depth perception is the best on the team. The potential is there."

Church, meantime, seemed a bit rattled by all the fuss Monday. He said when he arrived at spring training that despite what Acta was saying about his job security, he would treat the spring as a competition. He began tinkering with his batting stance early in the spring, closing it off a bit to help him stay back and more readily recognize breaking pitches. Instead, he said it caused him to lose some of his ability to jump on and drive fastballs, so last Thursday, he went back to a more open stance.

Now, throw in the perception of a competition with Snelling, and Church is looking for answers.

"I feel like I'm behind," he said after going 0 for 3 to drop his Grapefruit League average to .175. "I kind of put myself behind the eight-ball by closing off my stance. I feel more comfortable now, but I want results, because I'm sick of people talking like, 'He's not hitting.' I'm hitting the ball. Other people, though, they seem to get the hits, and they get to see the results. It's going to happen for me, but I want it to happen now."

Snelling, who started in center with Church in left on Monday, singled once and walked three times to raise his spring average to .310. He said the competition affected him not at all.

"From what I hear," Snelling said, "the manager's made up his mind of who he likes and who he doesn't."

Acta, though, has nothing but positive things to say about Snelling. "He has impressed everybody here," Acta said.

Which brings up another possibility: If Snelling and Church both hit, and current center fielder Nook Logan -- who had an RBI single Monday but is at .219 for the spring -- struggles offensively, could Church move to center and Snelling start in left?

"That's a Manny Acta question," Bowden said. "That's not a Jim question."

Acta said that right now, he's not considering such a move. And Bowden realizes that whatever group of players he selects -- with Acta's help -- it is the 38-year-old rookie manager who will have to deal with the day-to-day issues.

"We're trying to put the best 25 on the field right now," Bowden said, "but he's going to have to manage how they produce and the best way to win. . . . It's not a set thing where, 'Okay, we've got an $8-million player at each position, and that's who's going to play there.' "

Acta, in the quiet of his office after the win, seemed content with that task.

"Jim is not going to write down a lineup for me," he said. "I know that. We're comfortable with each other's jobs."

Re: Church Feeling the Pressure From Snelling
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2007, 07:11:54 am »
Church needs to relax and push away all that crap the jackals have been saying about him.  He needs to dig deep, dig in, and just concentrate on the pitcher throwing the ball and swing that bat.  Right now he has to play ST as if he was playing a game of pool.  In pool you don't play your opponent, you play the table and that is all you concentrate on.  The rest will come.  Time is running short but a lot of us know Ryan has it in him.

Snelling is doing terrific and I admit he has totally taken me by surprise.

CharmCityCrab

  • Guest
Re: Church Feeling the Pressure From Snelling
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2007, 02:31:47 pm »
I honestly would like to see them run Churchy out there no matter what he does in spring training.  It's spring training, not really enough at-bats to guage much, and he's been tinkering with stance trying to get better.  I feel like, even though he hasn't had a full season as a starter, he has enough of a track record that at his age it's really important to run him out there full-time on a rebuilding team and see what he can do.  It'd be a shame if they let a poor spring dissuade them from that.  His upside is too great to keep messing around with him -- let's see if he can be that 25-30 HR 80-100 RBI guy we all hope he can be.  And if he falters, hey, they're not going to the playoffs this year anyway, this is the time to try it and find out.

Nothing against everyone's favorite Aussie expatriot, but Snelling hasn't been with the organization as long and doesn't have the track record at the big league level.  I say make him the fourth outfield, give him frequent spot starts, let him learn his trade, and then run him out there as a starter if he has an injury, but let's not let a guy hitting .284 in spring training who no one has ever heard of before derail Church *again*.  We've got to take a long view here and stop letting piddly details get in the way of seeing if Church is going to be the star we all hope he can be.  No more trips to bench or to the minors, let the man play.

Offline tomterp

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 33885
  • Hell yes!
Re: Church Feeling the Pressure From Snelling
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2007, 03:07:49 pm »
CCC, I agree with you on Church.  We know (well, most of us know) that he's capable of putting up big numbers.  But I think Snelling needs a lot of time out there as well.  He's another guy who has always had great potential, but injuries always interfere.  I'd platoon him with Logan (with Church or Kearns covering center) at least half the time the Nats play right handed pitching, if not all the time.  Logan only hits lefties well, so let's get the mashers in there.

Offline 2k6nats

  • Posts: 9455
  • Through Fick and Zim
Re: Church Feeling the Pressure From Snelling
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2007, 05:42:58 pm »
I would like to see Snelling in left on Opening Day.  Sorry Ryan, but Snelling has been much more impressive in left and with the bat.  I could foresee a platoon with Logan, except for the fact that Logan plays great defense, and indirectly helps our pitching staff out.

My pick: Snelling.

Offline Dave B

  • Posts: 6033
Re: Church Feeling the Pressure From Snelling
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2007, 05:59:50 pm »
I dont know why we have such a love affair with Church. He had a great first couple of months in 2k5 and we have extrapolated his stats from last year over 600 AB's to make him an All Star (30HRs 105 RBI). 4 of his 10 HRs came in 3 games in April. 3 of his 10 HRs came in Philly.  He also padded his stats with a 150 RBI pace in September.  Not to say they dont count for anything, but take away a 3 run HR in Arizona against a guy who may or may not have sucked and you drop down 27 HR and 96 RBI.  Its a pretty sensitive extrapolation.  Its too small of a sample to to gauge that he will hit 30 HRs with 105 RBI. Especially when taking into account last spring, this spring, and the end of 2005.

As far as I'm concerned LF should be given to the guy who had the best spring and so far it is Snelling, by a lot.  Or maybe Casto, but because of "options", we might pass on him.

The only reason Snelling is someone "no one has ever heard of" and Church is is because we follow the Nationals and not the Mariners.  Go ask the Mariners who Ryan Church is.  I dont think they are going to say "that guy who if he had 600 ABs would hit 30 HRs"

Offline Senators2005

  • Lake Ridge, VA
  • Posts: 12271
  • Go Natsssssss!
    • http://nationalsnation.spaces.live.com/
Re: Church Feeling the Pressure From Snelling
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2007, 06:01:30 pm »
I would like to see Snelling in left on Opening Day.  Sorry Ryan, but Snelling has been much more impressive in left and with the bat.  I could foresee a platoon with Logan, except for the fact that Logan plays great defense, and indirectly helps our pitching staff out.

My pick: Snelling.
Snelling has had an impressive spring so far - but neither one of them are lighting the ballparks up like Albert Pujols or anything.  Church should be given the opportunity to play at the beginning of the season because he's earned that right through the organization.  However...I do agree that he should have a short leash and be required to start putting up some good numbers to keep the job.

Offline Senators2005

  • Lake Ridge, VA
  • Posts: 12271
  • Go Natsssssss!
    • http://nationalsnation.spaces.live.com/
Re: Church Feeling the Pressure From Snelling
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2007, 06:02:58 pm »
The only reason Snelling is someone "no one has ever heard of" and Church is is because we follow the Nationals and not the Mariners.  Go ask the Mariners who Ryan Church is.  I dont think they are going to say "that guy who if he had 600 ABs would hit 30 HRs"
Go ask the Mariners who Chris Snelling is...and they will say a great guy who can't get 600 ABs because he can never stay healthy.   :|

Offline Dave B

  • Posts: 6033
Re: Church Feeling the Pressure From Snelling
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2007, 06:13:25 pm »
Go ask the Mariners who Chris Snelling is...and they will say a great guy who can't stay healthy.   :|

Ride him while you can.

Back to the main point.   It might sound like I'm nit picking, but the point I'm trying  to make is: Church is not good and not bad, He just doesnt deserve to be given any benefits of the doubt

He had a good couple of months in 05, a bad couple of months in 05, a bad spring in 06, a good month in 06, and a bad spring in 07. Where is this track record?  Maybe he'll hit .400 over the next two weeks

Offline spidernat

  • Posts: 76956
  • The Lerners are Cheap AND Crooked
Re: Church Feeling the Pressure From Snelling
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2007, 06:16:39 pm »
I would like to see Snelling in left on Opening Day.  Sorry Ryan, but Snelling has been much more impressive in left and with the bat.  I could foresee a platoon with Logan, except for the fact that Logan plays great defense, and indirectly helps our pitching staff out.

My pick: Snelling.
I dont know why we have such a love affair with Church. He had a great first couple of months in 2k5 and we have extrapolated his stats from last year over 600 AB's to make him an All Star (30HRs 105 RBI). 4 of his 10 HRs came in 3 games in April. 3 of his 10 HRs came in Philly.  He also padded his stats with a 150 RBI pace in September.  Not to say they dont count for anything, but take away a 3 run HR in Arizona against a guy who may or may not have sucked and you drop down 27 HR and 96 RBI.  Its a pretty sensitive extrapolation.  Its too small of a sample to to gauge that he will hit 30 HRs with 105 RBI. Especially when taking into account last spring, this spring, and the end of 2005.

As far as I'm concerned LF should be given to the guy who had the best spring and so far it is Snelling, by a lot.  Or maybe Casto, but because of "options", we might pass on him.

The only reason Snelling is someone "no one has ever heard of" and Church is is because we follow the Nationals and not the Mariners.  Go ask the Mariners who Ryan Church is.  I dont think they are going to say "that guy who if he had 600 ABs would hit 30 HRs"


Finally a couple posters who aren't blinded by the fact that Church is a member of this forum and reads here regularly. I personally don't care about that type of stuff. I want the best player out there, the one who has earned it, be it Church, Snelling or Casto. With all the shameless butt smooching and all the people hanging on to Church's jock on this site it's a wonder the guy can even run around the diamond!  

Offline Senators2005

  • Lake Ridge, VA
  • Posts: 12271
  • Go Natsssssss!
    • http://nationalsnation.spaces.live.com/
Re: Church Feeling the Pressure From Snelling
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2007, 06:21:15 pm »

Finally a couple posters who aren't blinded by the fact that Church is a member of this forum and reads here regularly. I personally don't care about that type of stuff. I want the best player out there, the one who has earned it, be it Church, Snelling or Casto. With all the shameless butt smooching and all the people hanging on to Church's jock on this site it's a wonder the guy can even run around the diamond!  
Don't start that argument - otherwise you label everyone on Church's side as an ass-kisser, regardless of whether it is based on any factual evidence.  Everyone is entitled to an opinion without someone being labeled as such.  Please refrain from that.  Thanks.   :?

Re: Church Feeling the Pressure From Snelling
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2007, 06:29:09 pm »
Oh please......

Many of us were fans of Church way before knowledge that he even took a look at these boards so that line of thought needs to be cut off at the head right there.

The best man will start on Opening Day whether it is Church or not.  I wouldn't worry about that.  Excuse some of us for actually having a player we like even if its a player that doesn't put up Jeter numbers.

I still have faith in Church and hope he does succeed and improve because if Snelling's injury prone past comes back to haunt he will be more than useful.

Offline Dave B

  • Posts: 6033
Re: Church Feeling the Pressure From Snelling
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2007, 07:22:35 pm »
 Excuse some of us for actually having a player we like even if its a player that doesn't put up Jeter numbers.

That is kind of what I dont get.  Maybe not you in particular, but it seems like some take is a step further and there is a vibe of "Church should be in LF no matter how well he or anybody else is playing".  Or Church should be getting chance after chance after chance.  Like he is being snubbed or is some kind of victim.  I dont know where this attachment came from. 

Offline shoeshineboy

  • Posts: 7970
  • Walks Kill!! Walks Kill! Walks Kill!!!!
Re: Church Feeling the Pressure From Snelling
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2007, 08:11:29 pm »
CCC, I agree with you on Church.  We know (well, most of us know) that he's capable of putting up big numbers.  But I think Snelling needs a lot of time out there as well.  He's another guy who has always had great potential, but injuries always interfere.  I'd platoon him with Logan (with Church or Kearns covering center) at least half the time the Nats play right handed pitching, if not all the time.  Logan only hits lefties well, so let's get the mashers in there.

I agree, Snelling needs to get as much playing time as possible along with Church. Church has demonstrated what he is capable of, Snelling has been a guy with a lot of potential as well. Spring Training stats are really not the best gauge. There are so many other factors that need to be considered.

Offline tomterp

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 33885
  • Hell yes!
Re: Church Feeling the Pressure From Snelling
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2007, 09:22:07 pm »
With all the shameless butt smooching and all the people hanging on to Church's jock on this site it's a wonder the guy can even run around the diamond!  

Perhaps you could share with us some of the posts that offend you.

Offline Senators2005

  • Lake Ridge, VA
  • Posts: 12271
  • Go Natsssssss!
    • http://nationalsnation.spaces.live.com/
Re: Church Feeling the Pressure From Snelling
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2007, 09:44:54 pm »
Perhaps you could share with us some of the posts that offend you.
Just let it rest Tom - the more people talk about a comment like that the more people are likely to get angry.

Offline Kenz aFan

  • Posts: 5443
  • Just a fan
Re: Church Feeling the Pressure From Snelling
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2007, 11:31:44 pm »
I agree with Sens, this mini debate doesn't need to be part of ST chatter. No matter how good or bad a player is or how he's performed on the field, there'll always be varying opinions about that player.

There's 2 weeks left until the season starts up, and in baseball, two weeks can be a long time and a lot of things can, and often do, happen.

Offline Ericas Nats

  • Posts: 2410
  • Only Nationals fan in Seattle! :)
Re: Church Feeling the Pressure From Snelling
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2007, 11:35:52 pm »
hell, let them all play. when i played softball when i was a kid. we had a short fielder..

put all 4 out in the out there   LOL

Offline JMW IV

  • Posts: 11345
  • Name on the Front > Name on The Back
Re: Church Feeling the Pressure From Snelling
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2007, 12:13:12 am »

Finally a couple posters who aren't blinded by the fact that Church is a member of this forum and reads here regularly. I personally don't care about that type of stuff. I want the best player out there, the one who has earned it, be it Church, Snelling or Casto. With all the shameless butt smooching and all the people hanging on to Church's jock on this site it's a wonder the guy can even run around the diamond!   

oh STFU with this.  like nobody *ever, ever* thought Church was a decent player until someone found out he looked at this board.

Church has looked at this board maybe ONCE or twice.  I know his forum handle here, and I can see his board history. and he's never posted and he's voted in ONE poll.

and there have been fans of Church since the first season in DC.  this isn't a new thing.

so don't try and act like this is some new thing for 2007, this "people liking Church" thing. it's been going on for a while now.

and even so, I'm willing to wager that the majority of the posters on this board want the BEST PLAYER ON THE FIELD. period.

I know I do, and I'm perfectly fine with Snelling in left.

I am all for benching Church or even letting him go, AS LONG AS THERE IS A SUITABLE ALTERNATIVE.

and until Snelling, there has not been.  hence the support of Church.



Offline nats2playoffs

  • Posts: 23933
Re: Church Feeling the Pressure From Snelling
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2007, 01:36:04 am »
Oh please......I still have faith in Church...

You're in Carolina, so that's more commonplace down there...  "Gimme That Ol' Time Relijun..."





Offline spidernat

  • Posts: 76956
  • The Lerners are Cheap AND Crooked
Re: Church Feeling the Pressure From Snelling
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2007, 11:16:10 am »
Perhaps you could share with us some of the posts that offend you.


I'm not offended by any posts. I just think the Church worship is pathetic.

I certainly grant that there were some Church fans here long before the tidbit about his being a memeber of this forum was leaked. But it cannot be denied or overlooked that the Church smooching escalated to another level since that was revealed. If you are not a devout member of the recently founded Church of the Annointed Starting Left Fielder then don't take offense. I'm a fan of the Washington Nationals not of any individual players. I gave that up around the time I turned 13 or 14. And as long as we're talking about people being entitled to their opinion how about letting me express mine.

Re: Church Feeling the Pressure From Snelling
« Reply #23 on: March 21, 2007, 11:19:24 am »
I think that is a fasinating topic to discuss: do you have favorite players anymore or do you just follow the faceless franchise entity?  Why or why not?

What happened to the days of people annointing their heroes and latching on to players like the Dago, Roberto Clemente, Nolan Ryan, or a Cal Ripken Jr.?  Do heroes still exist or has the politics, stats, and endless desire to win at any cost robbed the American Pastime of its final innocence?

Offline shoeshineboy

  • Posts: 7970
  • Walks Kill!! Walks Kill! Walks Kill!!!!
Re: Church Feeling the Pressure From Snelling
« Reply #24 on: March 21, 2007, 11:21:38 am »

I'm not offended by any posts. I just think the Church worship is pathetic.

It's not Church worship. It is not even about liking a player. It about what a player can do in the lineup. The fact is that some of us recognize the numbers that Church has put up the last couple of seasons have been some of the best on the team. Last year he had a better OPS at RFK than Soriano. That is what produces runs. I want to the best players out there. I just don't see anything gained by dumping a guy with that kind of value.