Pro Wrestling Nostalgia Thread

[KnorrForYourMoney]

If you watched either one tonight, you're a fool.

I'm going to watch the Bret Hart stuff on youtube.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

What is this "mark" stuff?

And I disagree.  The flash and lines are a lot of what made The Rock popular, yes, and deservedly so, but to say that's all he is is majorly selling him short.  He had some great matches in his prime, and the angles that went with them were usually good as well.

He never carried matches.  Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels could get amazing matches out of Kevin Nash.  The Rock only ever wrestled fantastic matches against guys as sharp as Austin, HHH, and Angle.

He was about even with Scott Hall in terms of wrestling ability, which is all fine and well, but that just doesn't excite me. (although I am a fanboy of the Razor Ramon character, but mainly because it's so hilariously awesome)

[Lintyfresh85]

A "mark" for a promotion, wrestler etc has come to be used by wrestling fans to refer to an overzealous, sometimes to the point of being irrational, fan of that promotion or wrestler. A WWE mark is someone who thinks WWE is greater than all other wrestling promotions despite having very limited experience of other promotions; Fanboy.

Ugh. That is not what a mark is. You seriously have a very limited knowledge base on everything. Wrestling included.

A mark is a fan that still believes it is real or has questions if what they are watching is staged or not. Someone that gets angry when a heel does a bad move because he's cheating and that's not right. They cheer when they are supposed to and boo when they are supposed to. Marks are generally dim witted or of the younger ager group. Marks can also be educated people who prefer just to watch the show and enjoy what is presented to them. Mostly though, they fall into the dim witted or young categories.

Smarks (Smart Mark) on the other hand are fans that have educated themselves about the product as to which they are watching. Often going on the internet they try and learn the backstage gossip as well as lingo and terms 'the business' uses. The will always be known as smarks though as they are never fully involved in 'the business' and thus will always be stuck with the derogatory term 'smark'.

Marks = people who still think its real; main source of income for pro wrestling promotions
Smarks = people who know wrestling is fake, but love it for the intrigue, violence, etc. etc.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Ugh. That is not what a mark is. You seriously have a very limited knowledge base on everything. Wrestling included.

A mark is a fan that still believes it is real or has questions if what they are watching is staged or not. Someone that gets angry when a heel does a bad move because he's cheating and that's not right. They cheer when they are supposed to and boo when they are supposed to. Marks are generally dim witted or of the younger ager group. Marks can also be educated people who prefer just to watch the show and enjoy what is presented to them. Mostly though, they fall into the dim witted or young categories.

Smarks (Smart Mark) on the other hand are fans that have educated themselves about the product as to which they are watching. Often going on the internet they try and learn the backstage gossip as well as lingo and terms 'the business' uses. The will always be known as smarks though as they are never fully involved in 'the business' and thus will always be stuck with the derogatory term 'smark'.

Marks = people who still think its real; main source of income for pro wrestling promotions
Smarks = people who know wrestling is fake, but love it for the intrigue, violence, etc. etc.

Oh get off your high horse.  That's the original definition, but mark also means fanboy.  SF is right.

[Lintyfresh85]

Eh, you think I'm a fool for watching tonight anyways... so I'll just pretend I didn't see your last post.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

You apparently are a fool since you think there's only one definition of "mark."

[dirtynat]

Do adults watch wrestling?  Nothing but a bunch of tards. 

[UMDNats]

Do adults watch wrestling?  Nothing but a bunch of tards. 

[PANatsFan]

In honor of all this jibber jabber, I'm going to change my ring tone to "Sexy Boy" 

[Dunnkey]

He never carried matches.  Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels could get amazing matches out of Kevin Nash.  The Rock only ever wrestled fantastic matches against guys as sharp as Austin, HHH, and Angle.

He was about even with Scott Hall in terms of wrestling ability, which is all fine and well, but that just doesn't excite me. (although I am a fanboy of the Razor Ramon character, but mainly because it's so hilariously awesome)

You just reinforced my point perfectly.  The Rock was the perfect match-maker, setup guy, whatever you want to call it.  He elevated the rest of those guys from good to great in their feuds/matches.  They might all be technically superior wrestlers, but by and large, that isn't what brings in the viewers/bucks.  Rock/Mankind matches were epic almost without exception.  Doubt you'd see anyone claiming Mick Foley to be an amazing technical wrestler.

Wait a minute...  just re-read what you said...  you think AUSTIN was sharp?  He was a great persona, just like Rock, but I wouldn't even put his technical ability at The Rock's level.  Then again I only ever saw Austin during his peak, so it wouldn't surprise me if they were encouraging him to wrestle conservatively and stick to the crowd-pleasing stuff.

The Rock was awesome.  Clearly I'm not the only one who felt/feels that way.  Really though, to each their own.  I'm not expecting to change your mind or anything.

[Lintyfresh85]

Yeah... Austin was known as one of the best technical wrestlers around coming up through WCW and his early WWE stuff.

Find the Hart/Austin WMXIIV match. Wonderful stuff.

The dude was amazing until Owen broke his neck.

But yes, The Rock was always my favorite as well! He told such a great story in the ring and on the mic.

Hell, look at his match with Hogan at WM. It sucked from a technical standpoint... but damn if it wasn't one of my favorites of all time.

[Dunnkey]

Yeah... Austin was known as one of the best technical wrestlers around coming up through WCW and his early WWE stuff.

Then it's a shame I missed out on his rise.  All I ever saw of him was the usual beer-swilling redneck schtick and the same two or three moves repeated ad nauseum.

Find the Hart/Austin WMXIIV match. Wonderful stuff.

I didn't follow wrestling then but knowing Hart from my younger days I can certainly imagine.

The dude was amazing until Owen broke his neck.

Accident or deliberate accident?

But yes, The Rock was always my favorite as well! He told such a great story in the ring and on the mic.

Hell, look at his match with Hogan at WM. It sucked from a technical standpoint... but damn if it wasn't one of my favorites of all time.

I bet you could have played a drinking game with that match

[Minty Fresh]

Accident or deliberate accident?

Definite accident.  If you can find the whole match you'll notice it was definitely an accident.

[Lintyfresh85]

Definite accident.  If you can find the whole match you'll notice it was definitely an accident.

Yep... just a really nasty Tombstone piledriver.

Probably the smartest thing the wrestling world ever did was cut back on the use of piledrivers other than the direct head contact on chair shots.

[Minty Fresh]

Yep... just a really nasty Tombstone piledriver.

Probably the smartest thing the wrestling world ever did was cut back on the use of piledrivers other than the direct head contact on chair shots.

Remember the "Brainbuster?"  I think it was Arn Anderson's move.  That one was deadly.

[Lintyfresh85]

Yeah. That's just asking for a cracked spine.

I miss AA though. I was too young to ever appreciate his greatness in the ring. Same with Macho Man.

I wish those two were coming along now, rather than when I was too young to understand how good those guys were.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

Rock/Mankind matches were epic almost without exception.  Doubt you'd see anyone claiming Mick Foley to be an amazing technical wrestler.

Wait a minute...  just re-read what you said...  you think AUSTIN was sharp?

Austin wasn't a great wrestler post neck injury, but he knew how to wrestle a very effective main event.  It's not fair to rate him based on traditional technical ability because that wasn't the style of the era.  Main events used the whole brawling style.

Foley is a better wrestler than people give him credit for being.  He even had a match of the year type "slobberknocker" (to borrow a term from J.R.) with Shawn Michaels, and it wasn't because the match was hardcore and brutal.  Nobody ever really had to *carry* Mick Foley.

I'm just not quite as impressed with The Rock because he rarely if ever elevated anyone to another level like so many others.

And yeah, Austin was tremendous before the neck injury.  I'd echo linty's recommendation about finding the WM13 match with Hart.  That's like a top five wrestling memory for me.  Everything I wanted the previous year's main event to be (which ended up being somewhat disappointing - thanks a lot Bret/Shawn, you friggin egomaniacs) was delivered in that match.

An aside: Tony Schiavone is apparently an announcer in minor league baseball now.  I'd like him to replace Bob "that ball is GO!...ing into the glove of the outfielder" Carpenter.

[Dunnkey]

I never said Foley wasn't awesome, I already admitted I only saw post-injury Austin, and we simply disagree on The Rock.  Rock and his feud with Mankind were basically what got me back into WWF for the first time since childhood.  Not too terribly long after that passed I pretty much lost interest again.

I'll see if I can't find that Hart/Austin match someday when I've got some time to kill.

[Lintyfresh85]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xi0p6_bret-hart-vs-steve-austin_sport

It's not the best quality... but its the entire match there.

Also the debut of Ken Shamrock. I loved that guy!

To be fair... much of what Austin does in this match is stuff he used later on in his career... but you can tell the difference between the two styles. In this match, Austin is flying around, taking big bumps and really selling a beating. Super Austin was a slow, plodding untouchable version of what Austin first started out as.

[PANatsFan]

Also the debut of Ken Shamrock. I loved that guy!

All practice for Shamrock to take a dive in Japanese MMA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Shamrock#Return_to_MMA-_Pride_Fighting_Championships_.282000.E2.80.932002.29

I've never seen a more random end to a fight ever. Japanese bookies must have been livid.

[imref]

If you watched either one tonight, you're a fool.

I'm going to watch the Bret Hart stuff on youtube.

I've been a fan since about 1980 and grew up watching WCW on WTBS.  Monday's shows were certainly a nice return to the monday night wars of the 90's, but boo on TNA for completely screwing up their big chance:

1. An unwatchable cage match in which you couldn't see the participants (why not open with ultimate X?)
2. a screw-job ending that had the fans cursing the show
3. Jeff Hardy, indicted yesterday on drug charges making an appearance
4. Interviews with stereotypical fans who make the product look cheap (one guy saying he wants real wrestling, like andre the giant and ultimate warrior???)
5. A blow-off announcement of Angle-Styles in the 2nd hour when they could have announced it earlier to hold fans attention.
6. No Beer Money
7. A big segment featuring guys in their 40's and 50's, with Hall looking drunk
8. Hogan as a face, then a heel, then a face, then who knows?
9. No Chris Daniels
10. Desmond Wolfe losing in a squash

The night was saved by a great women's tag match and a **** main event, which of course got screwed up by the angle at the end.

[Nat of the LivingDead]

I nearly shat myself watching the first Hell In The Cell Match with Undertaker and Foley. When Foley took a plunge off the top of that cage I thought he killed himself. Then the tough sumnag actually climbed back to the top and urged Taker to come back up himself. Taker's face said it all. "What the freak? Are you kidding me?" But he did and then nearly killed Foley again choke slamming through the cage and back into the ring. Foley's body literally bounced.

I hear after the match, as they took Foley behind the curtain on a stretcher, all the Superstars that were there that night were lined up and gave him an ovation as they wheeled him out.

I can't believe Taker is still wrestling. I remember watching him during his Survivor Series debut for the Million Dollar team way back when. He destroyed Dusty Rhodes' American Dream team by himself. He is a tough sumnag too.

The Rock-- freaking loved the guy. My college roommate hated each other but the one thing that brought us together every week was RAW/SMACKDOWN and our love for the Rock. His mic skills were epic.

[Dunnkey]

the first Hell In The Cell Match with Undertaker and Foley.

 

[imref]

the first match I ever saw live was Flair vs. Steamboat in the early 1980's at the old Byrne Arena in NJ.  That pretty much ruined live shows as nothing could ever top it.

[tomterp]

I'm a fan of George "the animal" Steele. 

Real men don't shave their bodies.