Nats sign Josh Bard

[sportsfan882]

From the post this morning:

Which would be Nieves

All this trouble and for nothing.

[ronnynat]

Acta seems like one of those managers who only does what he thinks other managers would do. No marbles.

[PANatsFan]

Acta seems like one of those managers who only does what he thinks other managers would do. No marbles.

Doesn't the GM make roster decisions, and the manager decides how to use that roster? Did I miss something.

[tomterp]

A bat can make up for a glove, to a certain extent, even at catcher.

[Minty Fresh]

A bat can make up for a glove, to a certain extent, even at catcher.

He'd have to be one fantastic offensive catcher.

[blue911]

He'd have to be one fantastic offensive catcher.

Mike Piazza comes to mind. But not too ballplayers can hit like Piazza,let alone catchers. The Dodgers want to move Martin because Torre thinks he isn't a major league quality catcher.

[Minty Fresh]

Mike Piazza comes to mind. But not too ballplayers can hit like Piazza,let alone catchers. The Dodgers want to move Martin because Torre thinks he isn't a major league quality catcher.

I've never understood any decision involving keeping a strictly offensive catcher on any roster.  Even the Yankees or Red Sox can't field nine all-stars.  Someone has to hit ninth, why not make it the light-hitting catcher? 

To me, a catcher who hits .260 but keeps his pitchers together is more valuable than a guy like Ivan Rodriguez who could hit the lights out but his ego got in the way of being an effective catcher. 

[Nat of the Living Dead]

I've never understood any decision involving keeping a strictly offensive catcher on any roster.  Even the Yankees or Red Sox can't field nine all-stars.  Someone has to hit ninth, why not make it the light-hitting catcher? 

To me, a catcher who hits .260 but keeps his pitchers together is more valuable than a guy like Ivan Rodriguez who could hit the lights out but his ego got in the way of being an effective catcher. 

"You shut up, Minty Fresh!"

[Minty Fresh]

(Image removed from quote.)

"You shut up, Minty Fresh!"

   

I forgot about Walnuts.

[blue911]

I've never understood any decision involving keeping a strictly offensive catcher on any roster.  Even the Yankees or Red Sox can't field nine all-stars.  Someone has to hit ninth, why not make it the light-hitting catcher? 

To me, a catcher who hits .260 but keeps his pitchers together is more valuable than a guy like Ivan Rodriguez who could hit the lights out but his ego got in the way of being an effective catcher. 

I agree but I've never heard of a manager that didn't have wet dreams about a good offensive catcher. Hell even Earl Weaver traded for Earl Williams.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

There's a fellow named Jorge Posada who has a few rings that made Torre look like a genius going with offense over defense.

[blue911]

There's a fellow named Jorge Posada who has a few rings that made Torre look like a genius going with offense over defense.

I wouldn't classify Posada as a purely offensive catcher. Passable is the word I'd use to describe his defense.

[Minty Fresh]

I wouldn't classify Posada as a purely offensive catcher. Passable is the word I'd use to describe his defense.

And he worked hard to get to passable.  He was kept in the minors longer than the Yankees had hoped to work on his non-offensive skills.

But beyond that, it's not like Joe Torre was a major league catcher himself - so what would he know?

[blue911]

And he worked hard to get to passable.  He was kept in the minors longer than the Yankees had hoped to work on his non-offensive skills.

But beyond that, it's not like Joe Torre was a major league catcher himself - so what would he know?

The problem is people only remember how many runners a catcher throws out stealing. Blocking balls in the dirt is expected but people don't realize how hard it is to stop a ball the hits the black on the front of the plate. yet alone a catcher that has the balls to call for sliders in the dirt with a runner on third.

[tomterp]

Minty, I haven't watched Bard much at all, but is he considered a significantly inferior catcher to Nieves? 

If Nieves is slightly better defensively, and Bard a little better offensively, might be a push.

[PANatsFan]

Solution to all of this would be to put Willingham at catcher. Oh wait . . .

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Blue - by some measures, Posada was one of the worst recent catchers at blocking pitches:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/more-on-catchers-fieldingwppb/#more-3232

"The major league average is .016 wild pitches and .004 passed balls per plate appearance with a runner on base. The best career normalized wild pitch rates go to Bruce Benedict, Yogi Berra and Mike Redmond at .010; Brian Downing, Del Crandall and Jason Varitek at .011; and Rod Barajas, Manny Sanguillen, Bill Freehan, Kirt Manwaring, Sherm Lollar and Steve Yeager at .012. The worst wild pitch rates are Earl Battey at .021; Junior Ortiz and Mike Macfarlane at .021; and Miguel Olivo, Johnny Roseboro, Tim Laudner, Jorge Posada, Pat Borders, Thurman Munson, Hal Smith, Darrell Porter and George Mitterwald at .020.

"The lowest normalized passed ball rates were Brian Downing, Charlie O’Brien, Bruce Benedict, Dan Wilson, Yogi Berra, Brad Ausmus, Del Crandall, Sherm Lollar and Ron Karkovice at .002, with the worst being Miguel Olivo and Bob Brenly at .008; and Joe Azcue, Jorge Posada, Earl Battey and Lance Parrish at .007."

[PANatsFan]

Blue - by some measures, Posada was one of the worst recent catchers at blocking pitches:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/more-on-catchers-fieldingwppb/#more-3232

"The major league average is .016 wild pitches and .004 passed balls per plate appearance with a runner on base. The best career normalized wild pitch rates go to Bruce Benedict, Yogi Berra and Mike Redmond at .010; Brian Downing, Del Crandall and Jason Varitek at .011; and Rod Barajas, Manny Sanguillen, Bill Freehan, Kirt Manwaring, Sherm Lollar and Steve Yeager at .012. The worst wild pitch rates are Earl Battey at .021; Junior Ortiz and Mike Macfarlane at .021; and Miguel Olivo, Johnny Roseboro, Tim Laudner, Jorge Posada, Pat Borders, Thurman Munson, Hal Smith, Darrell Porter and George Mitterwald at .020.

"The lowest normalized passed ball rates were Brian Downing, Charlie O’Brien, Bruce Benedict, Dan Wilson, Yogi Berra, Brad Ausmus, Del Crandall, Sherm Lollar and Ron Karkovice at .002, with the worst being Miguel Olivo and Bob Brenly at .008; and Joe Azcue, Jorge Posada, Earl Battey and Lance Parrish at .007."

JCA you just convinced me that catching defense doesn't count for jack. The worst ever is a difference between 4 every thousand chances and 7 every thousand chances for passed balls, and 4 every thusand for wild pitches (which of course is not entirely under the catchers control). Honestly, who cares?

[tomterp]

JCA you just convinced me that catching defense doesn't count for jack. The worst ever is a difference between 4 every thousand chances and 7 every thousand chances for passed balls, and 4 every thusand for wild pitches (which of course is not entirely under the catchers control). Honestly, who cares?

Yes, but if Spider were here, he'd be reminding you how important it is to call a darn good game.

[blue911]

Blue - by some measures, Posada was one of the worst recent catchers at blocking pitches:
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/more-on-catchers-fieldingwppb/#more-3232

"The major league average is .016 wild pitches and .004 passed balls per plate appearance with a runner on base. The best career normalized wild pitch rates go to Bruce Benedict, Yogi Berra and Mike Redmond at .010; Brian Downing, Del Crandall and Jason Varitek at .011; and Rod Barajas, Manny Sanguillen, Bill Freehan, Kirt Manwaring, Sherm Lollar and Steve Yeager at .012. The worst wild pitch rates are Earl Battey at .021; Junior Ortiz and Mike Macfarlane at .021; and Miguel Olivo, Johnny Roseboro, Tim Laudner, Jorge Posada, Pat Borders, Thurman Munson, Hal Smith, Darrell Porter and George Mitterwald at .020.

"The lowest normalized passed ball rates were Brian Downing, Charlie O’Brien, Bruce Benedict, Dan Wilson, Yogi Berra, Brad Ausmus, Del Crandall, Sherm Lollar and Ron Karkovice at .002, with the worst being Miguel Olivo and Bob Brenly at .008; and Joe Azcue, Jorge Posada, Earl Battey and Lance Parrish at .007."

You have to stop quoting fangraphs. They are the people that say Willie Harris was a more valuable player than Adam Dunn. I don't even like Dunn, but I wouldn't even go there.

Again with the stats. Posada may have a higher than average PB rate because of how he calls the game. I don't know, I've never been a Yankee fan and have only seen him on ESPN.

[KnorrForYourMoney]

You have to stop quoting fangraphs. They are the people that say Willie Harris was a more valuable player than Adam Dunn. I don't even like Dunn, but I wouldn't even go there.

So due to the fact that some of their opinions/synthesized metrics are questionable, we should discount everything from the site?

The stat about Posada is valid.  It doesn't matter how he calls a game.  Your P.B. rate shouldn't be that high, period.

[blue911]

So due to the fact that some of their opinions/synthesized metrics are questionable, we should discount everything from the site?

The stat about Posada is valid.  It doesn't matter how he calls a game.  Your P.B. rate shouldn't be that high, period.

It's funny Parrish was considered a great catcher. I guess Sparky Anderson doesn't know anything about catching either.

[PANatsFan]

So due to the fact that some of their opinions/synthesized metrics are questionable, we should discount everything from the site?

The stat about Posada is valid.  It doesn't matter how he calls a game.  Your P.B. rate shouldn't be that high, period.

4 every THOUSAND chances. A couple more per season, no? Who gives a crap? Posada was hitting a huge number of HR's.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

OK, Blue.  I'm putting myself in the 24 hour "no citing fangraphs" penalty box. 

[blue911]

OK, Blue.  I'm putting myself in the 24 hour "no citing fangraphs" penalty box. 

I'm just saying, beware of stats. Kevin Cash had 14 passed balls in 370 innings, Jason Varitek had 4 in over 1,000 but Varitek can't catch Wakefield, so who's the better catcher?